The FMCSA has finally published its long-awaited EOBR proposal just a few days after it received government approval. According to the FMCSA, the supplemental notice of proposed rulemaking (which can be found here) would “improve commercial motor vehicle (CMV) safety and reduce the overall paperwork burden for both motor carriers and drivers.”
The rule would establish four amendments to the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations which would be as follows:
1- Minimum performance and design standards for hours-of-service (HOS) electronic logging devices (ELDs)
2- Requirements for the mandatory use of these devices by drivers currently required to prepare HOS records of duty status (RODS);
3- Requirements concerning HOS supporting documents
4- Measures to address concerns about harassment resulting from the mandatory use of ELDs
The ATA has come out in support of the proposal which would force the mandatory use of Electronic Onboard Recorders (now being referred to by the FMCSA as Electronic Logging Devices) by all commercial truck drivers.
Other industry groups have expressed concerns in the past that mandatory EOBRs would allow dispatchers to bully drivers into driving longer hours or when they feel it would be unsafe to drive since dispatchers would know exactly how many allowable hours a driver has left at any time of the day. A driver that has called it a day to wait out unsafe weather might, for example, be pushed to continue on despite the conditions. For that reason, the proposed rule would contain “measures” that would supposedly prevent such driver harassment.
The FMCSA has claimed that mandatory EOBRs would reduce the amount of HOS violations because truckers would not be able to “misrepresent” their time as they can currently with standard logbooks. They also claim that because of this, EOBRs will be keeping fatigued drivers off the road and prevent approximately 20 fatalities and 434 injuries each year, saving $394.8 million dollars.
The rule will likely go in to effect 2 years after its official publication date which is scheduled for some time close to the end of this year. By that schedule we’ll likely see the new rules taking effect toward the end of 2016.
Supposedly the proposed rule will only move forward if the FMCSA is able to meet all of the requirements that Congress has asked for them to fulfill. This means that if the FMCSA can’t find a way to solve issues like keeping dispatchers from using EOBRs to harass drivers or designing EOBRs that can tell when a driver is on duty but not driving, the proposed rule will not go forward.
Of course, they also weren’t supposed to make changes to HOS rules without getting result back on the studies that recommended the changes, but that certainly didn’t stop them.
Next Story: Trucker Escapes Death Twice In One Night
Source: ccj, overdrive, thetrucker, thetrucker, truckinginfo, FMCSA
Brian Van Ausdle says
I’m not in favor of these devices, moreover even back in the mid 90’s when dispatching was done
Via Qualcomm etc. drivers were now tied to their dispatcher. The dispatcher knew approx how many hours a driver had left and therefore could “harass ” you.
Really the only reason for this new equipment is to regulate, regulate & regulate
That’s it. If logging extrinsic ally was the only reason the industry would have done the 15 years ago
Bra wise the technology was already in place. As with everything it seems
This is all in an effort to control every aspect of people and industry but the Feds.
Roy says
Its all because DOT most don’t understand the paper logs so this makes it easier for the dummies working nowadays in the scale house, on the road, or wherever they are. So said that DOT can’t train officers better before they throw them out to do inspections.
WING says
To effect this change, numerous functions must be in place. There needs to be a load/unload and move time function…as the shipper/receiver that holds the driver ten hours and then says get off the lot doesn’t allow for safe off site parking…. . Are drivers getting any raise in cpm for this boondoggle? This equipment benefits everyone , including EOBR manufacturers and vendors…… It does not benefit the driver.
Put a CRASH button on the black box the driver can initiate to say the dispatch is harassing them… direct to DOT, that requires an immediate response back as the computer will know the driver’s hours…computers are deemed smarter than humans and know when you are tired,,don’t you know!?
If the driver is not totally regulate by hours, then the driver should be paid for 168 hours a week that they are away from the home terminal for. 10.00 an hour is 1,680 dollars for a week, and that rate should be a minimum rate fro OTR drivers. No more cpm.
These pencil pushers in the FMCSA just want total control. So let Anne Ferro and company drive the trucks.
Shippers/receivers/dispatch have too long ruled the day over drivers……. Congress won’t change Fair Labor Standards Act from 1938 to reflect the rules of toady.
Blame every thing on the driver.. so if we are on a time clock…we should get payed by the hour!
I R Gohen says
If drivers were paid by the hour nothing would change. The Rand McNally mileage database would become a ‘driving time’ database. Drivers would be paid for on duty activities only and the feds have already reclassified dock time as off duty. They have all the bases covered except for one, an ever increasing number of empty driver seats.
James Beam says
Final mail in the coffin.. Wonder if there will be alot of fall out with the “Old School?” Resulting in high turnover, which in turn will add plenty more steering wheel holders to our roadways. Seems to me also there will need to be mandates on shipper and recivers burning up a drivers 14 hour clock. I personally don’t think the race against the clock every day is a very safe practice in and of itself. Considering current crash stats and today’s much more advanced equipment, that they should just leave well enough alone!! Highway congestion will also be an issue that is if they can find enough fools to drive for minimum wage, due to the fact they will have to add to fleets to cover the downtime slack of the other units. What a mess! Correction, did the math and I’m already at less than minimum wage!
Charles says
Why is everyone hung up on the min wage?….if your per mi rate is anything above a quarter or mebbe thirty cents/mi, then you’re makin money when you’re rolling–which is most likely MOST of the time!!!.. .30/mi=18.00/hr @ 60mph and 16.50 @ 55mph……I’m not a fan of increased regulation, or even just the mass of clock rules for that matter, but I LIKE the idea of mando EOBRs–assuming that there is some Fed oversight involved–not just a system that sends its info JUST to the company, but also sends it to the DOT…..Also, EOBRs will keep companies that like to pick and choose what bits and pieces of the Regs they follow from doing so with impunity……..if, for example, a company wants its drivers to follow just the part that says that all a flatbed driver has to show for doing a “load” or “unload” is one hour, while disregarding the requirement to show EXACTLY what they do, AND how long it takes,etc–as in show how long it ACTUALLY takes–, well, they won’t be able to do so anymore, because an EOBR worthy of the name will show not only the driver’s log, but also when the truck is running.@ what RPM,etc as well–which takes out said co’s ability to f$%^ with the rules!!!…esp if the Feds get their copy of the EOBR signal!!!!
Infosaur says
That’s the point, a lot of us AREN’T rolling as much as we could (and I, frankly, wouldn’t want to run max miles every day)
More often it’s a 400-500, mile intermediate range capped off by 6+ hours of dock time on both ends. Then dispatch won’t give you a load until you’re “confirmed” empty. And it’s sometimes a 3 hour wait until they find you a load, (that might pick up the next day)
So $200 for 3 days of “work”? A burger flipper at the new minimum wage on an 8-hr shift will pull home $242.40!
jeff elam says
Saves 394 million dollars ok. So how many millions do hos violation fines add up to? Without the money from these fines where is the difference going to be made up?
holly says
speeding (supposedly) tickets , seat belt fines, D O T checks, hemmorhoid checks(if you know what i mean) and any and all moving violations they can come up with 🙁
Rob says
They could make a ton of money if they started issuing citations to all the trucks that tailgate!
Clyde Redden says
Great, more government intrusion. Oh, and thanks for stabbing us in the back, ATA.
IZ says
Anybody that thought ATA was on our side GUESS AGAIN!! They are on large carriers side NOT OURS!! JOIN OOIDA NOW!! They are the ONLY ONES FIGHTING FOR THE OWNER OPERATOR! GOOD LUCK EVERYONE, THE BATTLE IS ON!!
From A LIFETIME OOIDA MEMBER.
Bill says
I agree and am also an OOIDA member. I hate to say it but if they get this thing pushed through I think OOIDA is finished. I know this is my primary concern and will continue to send money their way. But if I’m forced to put this thing in my truck I’m done with over the road. I ‘ll just run regional where I’m home every day and will probably not renew. I think this will mark the end of the over the road OO.
Horst Puff says
US is going the same way Europe did. What´s over there now: NOT 1% more safety. The trucks lost 20% of there efficiency. Trucking companies lost money, the drivers salary went down. The qualified drivers are changing their jobs. Trucking companies are not able to find reliable drivers. Now a lot of untrained drivers from Eastern Europe are on the roads, because they are cheaper. The risks of accidents and incidents are raising. Go on youtube and watch videos about what I am telling here. You will find lots. I agree with Brian: “Really the only reason for this new equipment is to regulate, regulate & regulate” – and making MONEY for the Gov. In Austria for example a certain amount of payed fines is part of the yearly budget. It has nothing to do with safety. What a mess …
holly says
yeah, and this ‘ mandatory ‘ stuff is crap.what are we children? arent there enough regs? and how can the trucking companies give deserving drivers raises if they have to afford these new pieces of equipment and the ppl to maintain them?
Bo says
I have been driving for 28 years.Never needed an EOBR in all those years.I have never felt that the 14 hour clock was safe.So I have just ignored it and took breaks whenever I felt I needed too.With an EOBR every driver on the road will be forced to run hard to stay within the 14 hour rule.I see nothing about that as being safe.Thank you government for once again doing everything in your power to destroy the trucking industry.I will be giving it up.Let the steering wheel holders take over.That’s what the government and big carriers want anyway.Low skilled under paid workers.
Enjoy the future crash rates.They won’t be good.
Kai says
eh, not true. Some people might think that, but I find I never run a full 14 hour day and I start at the same time every day. I’m always fresh and I don’t feel the need to “run hard”, ever.
Larry says
Exactly. There are days when you don’t feel like pushing it and would be unsafe trying to, but by going this route others will say you have to run because you have the hours to do so. Here is another reason i am against this crock and that is when your required to run into an area like Chitcago w/o enough time to go in and get back out to a safe place to park. Drivers will then have to park on a street or wherever they can find to take a 10 hr break unarmed and having to pay for parking fines. I was once charged for a service failure from a company for refusing a load going into Chitcago when i knew i would not have enough time to get loaded and back out. Makes me wanna go independent more everyday.
Fred says
I use a 18 wheeler for personal use, do I need one ???
Dave B. says
Most of the EOBR’s have a button for personal conveyance.
WING says
yep!
Tex Lowe says
I don’t think that your ” not for hire ” personal trucks will be required to have an E-Log device. …….call your local DMV office.
Cliff Downing says
This whole harassment thing is a ruse to try and search out some reason to rail against EOBR’s. A driver can only be harassed if they choose to be. They can act like an adult and stand their ground, put in their walking papers, or cower like little whipped pups. If dispatch and I can’t reach a mature understanding, then they can find someone else to move the load, and I’ll go home. I am always amazed how folks who try to prove their machismo by driving a truck can be intimidated and need a government agency to come to their rescue. Makes me wonder how we ever won a war.
jack says
LOL@ save drivers some time on paperwork.yea right..good joke.. when did the fmcsa ever care about how much paperwork you had to do?? I can see owner operators just buying 2 of these and keep on trucking……or what if the truck has more than 1 driver? alot of companies slip seat
John says
Don’t be fooled. They would not bother with all of this if there is no problem/ reaction /solution.
How about this for end game:
Simple ankle bracelet with recording of vitals (alert,awake,sleep) with gps ability to track immediate position of driver in relation to truck ( Driver seat ,sleeper,around truck,away from truck) combined with global tracking of operated equipment )
We sacrificed so much to have CDL…. why not to sacrifice some more.
We have tech….all is missing some legislation.
randy says
If a truck has slip seat drivers it only requires one eobr when driver starts their day they log in and begin their work when their day is finished they log out and next driver logs in rinse and repeat.
WING says
there will still be a requirement for evidence of Hours of Service on paper, as all the EOBRs’ out there from different companies will need equivalent porting for the DOT officer to get your hours you’ve worked…printing will still be needed. …. Will the government be taxing everyone to provide funds for the DOT officers readers?
Pandora’s black box unleashed!
jack says
so now your going to have to stop eating and lose weight to pass the sleep apnea test and put an on board computer in the truck so the govment can keep up wid chew.
Larry says
Yup Moochele ordered that up.
Butch says
That’s it.
Goodbye and good luck, brothers and sisters.
Dave says
You still have three years Butch. It wont take effect until the end of 2016. Unless your a company man and they jump on board early.
Wayne says
Yup,i work for a owner op who has 3 trucks & when him & his wife get made to put this in there rides i quit an give my 2weeks notice
George says
That gives me enough time to find some other industry to work In.
This is your official 2 YEAR notice to those of you who dare consider your self someone entitled to think on your own. Your time has come. You will not be meat in the seat and do what when and were they want you to or else have someone all over you. It don’t matter if that someone is some idiot who never been over the road or if that somebody never seen the inside of a truck or turned a wrench. That some one knows how to type fast on a computer and knows how to use google maps and by god if you don’t follow that some odys instructions to a t you better prepare yourself for a life altering experience ………and this is the part were I tell you I’m being sarcastic LOL!
Please ……these fools think I will drive when they issue this? We will have to see how desperate I am for a job. But I promise you this, I will try everything I can to leave the industry.
walter l. mcclain says
I started driving a truck at 13 years old , am now 60 . the truck was a 55 chevy gas job , starter in the floor board , and from that to a f 600 ford , to 9500 gmc ,238 10 speed . there is no way a person can learn how to drive a truck in six weeks , and be safe out in modern day traffic . I have been an owner operator for the last 25 years , and still own a truck , and these truck school drivers are practicing in the truck stop parking lots . I am afraid of them , how can a company get insurance on a driver , that cant drive !!! they know nothing about the truck ,in order to be a good driver , u must understand the truck front to rear , top to bottom , a good working knowledge of the mechanics of the truck . most of the time a seasoned driver can tell what engine that is under the hood , just from hearing it run , or if its a 13 speed , or 18 speed just from hearing the trans being shifted . but for the few of us that are at this level , real truck drivers , we are a dying breed .
leandean says
Amen brother. CDL in 1969 only it wasn’t called that then. My employer signed a piece of paper, I went to DOL and came out with a license. First ride: 58 KW, 180 Cummins, five and a four, armstrong steering. The new breed probably doesn’t know what the last two even mean, let alone driven one.
roadtoad says
The FMCSA must think that driver retention is at an all time high to publish this rule. Thanks but no thanks, if this goes into effect, I will probably find a new line of work.
dannythetrucker says
If this proposal has been submitted, why can’t I find it on regulations.gov ? Shouldn’t it be open for comment ?
Joseph says
At first I liked the eobr’s since I didn’t have to worry about paper work and all. As far as the dispatchers harassing me that ended with the eobr’s for me because it wasn’t that I wasn’t wanting to run the legal amount but it was the extra on top of that my dispatchers were wanting which I couldn’t prove that I didn’t have the hours to run because they didn’t know what was on my log so they would accuse me of lying or call me lazy and try to guilt trip me into running longer so with the eobr that ended because they knew when I said I was out of hours it was true. The bad thing I’ve found with the eobr’s is the fact that it can not decipher between on duty not driving and off duty hours for instance at the end of the day when I shut down the eobr potentially can keep you on duty not driving and put you in violation if you forget to manually log out. I know this because the previous company I worked for fired me over this very problem, I would forget to log out manually some times and the eobr would keep me on duty putting me in violation so even though I was at a fuel stop and not a customers they chose not to believe me over the log, so in another words this little device ended of giving me way more hos violations then I ever had with a paper log and now with the mandatory 30 minute brakes it’s even worse.. So with the inability of the eobr to decipher between on duty and off duty hours, the mandatory 30 minute break and the point system I don’t know how anybody’s able to keep a driving job really.. I mean I’m pretty meticulous about keeping things in order and I made mistakes with all this crap.. It’s really getting ridiculous or should I say even more ridiculous.. One things for sure though politicians who don’t know what it’s like out there shouldn’t be making the rules..
Larry says
Some of these young idiot dispatchers that have never drove before don’t understand that ya can’t run a full 11 and 14 and be parked on the dime. I told one once ok i will run until a have ran a full 11 and then i’ll park it on the shoulder of the hwy, then they can pay for tow truck to haul it off lol.
WING says
push button that says off duty, EOBR pops up screen that says ‘confirm off duty’… too hard for EOBR manufacturers to make it this simple!
Oh Dear!
Cameras will be in all positions, including the sleeper, and sleep apnea gear in the sleeper, need it or not.
Pandora’s Black Box on STEROIDS!
To hell with Anne Ferro and company.
Just PARK IT!
Scott Rupert says
Well… I had already planned on ending my career as a car hauler by the end of 2016, after winning election to Ohio’s US Senate. I suppose now I have more incentive to win, because I won’t drive a truck with an EOBR, especially not a truck that I own.
It is time that we all stand up and let the government know who’s in charge. Government works for us, not the other way around. This kind of control has to be stopped.
Scott Rupert
independent candidate
Ohio’s US Senate, 2016
Patrick Henry says
You got that right! I’m down to 2 days a week now and I hope by the time this comes around I’ll be done too. Good luck with your run, OH needs all the help it can get from good liberty minded candidates.
“You are not to inquire how your trade may be increased, nor how you are to become a great and powerful people, but how your liberties can be secured; for liberty ought to be the direct end of your Government.”
Jason says
I wish you the best sir. OH does need all the help it can get but, more than that, the Government needs to know its place. It will take many more men like yourself to do it but, it can be done. I have thought about running for the last year and things like this make me think even harder. God bless and good luck.
Fozzy says
So again.. automatic compliance means something bad? LOL… OK.. keep that working for free stuff up drivers… its worked so well for the industry so far.
Jason says
You just don’t understand the whole “freedom” thing do you? How many more rules/regs are you going to except before you say “enough is enough”? Didn’t you want to move out of your parents house when you were 18 so you could be on your own? Why than do you want Government parents? This is NOT about ELD’s!
WING says
Are you ignorant of the facts…Do you really think more regulation is good? Do you not understand that The Fair Labor Standards of 1938 rules the day for drivers. Since logbooks became the norm, have all drivers been paid a fair hourly wage for working on the time clock of the LOGBOOK?
Automatic compliance does mean something bad. It means drivers as a whole will not stand up for privacy rights, working wages, health, family time or anything else.
The time of the independent driver , company driver is over. You have been handed your hat!
CPM pay for setting at a dock for 24 hours when your appointment was the day before?!
So you intimate that 10 to 20 % less pay for the same gruel is better?
Better that all drivers just PARK IT, in place , for one day. # days will kill banks…. or a grocery store, a week will stop a hospital…. so take it to the throats of the arrogant American public, then you will get some results from the government. Enough is Enough!
No where do you hear the government say you are getting a raise!
tom laughlin says
when your time is up just park your truck in the middle of the road put out your triangles and then a sign that says sorry out of time!
John says
Well it’s about time! I’m glad the FMCSA has finally had the stones to get it rolling. I realize that many of my fellow old-timers and even the journeyman will think I’m nuts for supporting ELD’s. But think about this, we used tachographs all the way back in the 50’s, that was basically the same thing. Drivers could still make a decent wage and NOT be WAY overworked. Like one of the previous posters said, if you don’t have the balls to tell a dispatcher to stow it when you’re tired then you don’t have enough personal strength and conviction to do this job PERIOD. This is no place for the feint of heart or second guessers, you’ve got to know your stuff. It takes 3-5 years to get really good at trucking and you never stop learning. One of these days company owners, legislators, regulators, and hopefully, shippers will realize this. I want the ELD’s because they are the only way that the regulations will be truly followed. It is only through full compliance that the suits will finally see just how screwed up their notions are. That said, it’s also the best way to finally track the REAL amount of UNPAID time drivers are required to work. You’ve all been complaining about the detention time at shippers and receivers, well buck up, your prayers are gonna be answered within the next 5 years. I expect that, within that time, legislation will be proposed to bring trucking under the fair labor standards act and we will start seeing more drivers getting paid hourly. For those of you who are good at what you do and are ambitious, demand it from your boss. Experience does pay if you truly have confidence in that experience. I’ve been on E-logs for the last 5 years and the only complaints I have about it are the occasional IT glitches and the new 30 minute break mandate. I have been training newbies for the last 3 years, not for the money as it’s less than a hundred bucks a week extra, but because I realized the need to put-up or shut-up when it comes to the quality of new drivers. Yeah, my earlier day of driving were largely illegal, multiple funny books and heavy haul cross-country. Dodging scales and running 70 hours on 9 hours of sleep, that was a much different time and America was a much different place. There are 5 times the number of vehicles on the road today covering 10 times the distance. If a driver isn’t committed to this then by all means leave it and find something else. Me and the government won’t give 2 shits for loosing you. If you are committed then you’ll stick thru this too, and you’ll speak up for yourselves. To regulators, your boss, shippers, and receivers. Have some pride in what you do, just like the Army, it’s not just a job. Demand pay that’s worth your time, when driving or waiting. If the drivers demand it then the carriers will, and eventually shippers and receivers will get their act together, but only if they have to pay. Keep the faith.
Coffeeclue says
EOBRs work great when a company has steady terminal to terminal routes. The problem comes up when you’re an owner operator, looking for freight on IT. So, say you’e at the end of your 70 hr week and you got 2 hours to go to get home. Do you stop at a rest area and spend your 34 hours there, or do you cheat and get home and spend the weekend with your family? Or another example, being stuck in traffic and an unloading crew is waiting for you at the destination. You need an extra hour, but now you have to call the crew and tell them you have to take 10 hours off. I would never advocate driving 37 hours with no sleep, but we should be allowed occasional overruns.
Brad Wheeler says
Well said I to am on e-logs about a month now. Im old school so i didnt like em still dont ….but the times they are a changin. We must learn new ways and you are right shippers recievers and company are not gonna change without being made to.
Ed says
I like your spirit, but it’s not based in reality. Your logic helped get Obama elected twice, let’s sit home, let him get elected and lets show America how bad it will really get and then they’ll learn. If you like Obama, go back to Bush and insert his name there. Or, you could put 535 other names into those spots because they’re all worthless and let the FMCSA do the things they’re not whiling to vote for but the secretly support.
If you really think people will learn or comply or anything else I got Ocean front property in AZ that I’ll make a deal with you on. This is going to make things worse for everybody, I can not think of a rule change made in the last 20 years to anything that has made any ones life better. The only reason why safety is up now isn’t because of the past rule changes, it’s because they’re actually enforcing the law and companies don’t like loosing millions in litigation. This is designed to destroy what little freedom drivers have left to take their trucks to walmart or to their kids class room show in tell or just to run enrands around the home town that require your truck because your personal vehicle is broke.
It’s a recipe for harassment by law enforcement, they’ll use it to hammer you into compliance whether you’re using your truck for business or pleasure or you got to drive the extra mile because some shipper/receiver removes you from property or you run out of hours waiting for an accident to be cleaned up or maybe your mom and pop truckstop suddenly closes and you gotta drive another 50 miles to the next one.
They need to ensure ways to protect drivers from excessively pompous law enforcement officials who are driven by greedy politicians to act that way before they mandate EOBR’s.
And another thing, everyone is pay’d what they’re owed. Your measure of pay may be based on miles, but just because you’re doing work that doesn’t produce miles doesn’t mean you’re not being paid. For instance, a knife maker doesn’t get paid for pounding steel, grinding excess metal, or fashioning a nice handle. He’s paid for the knife. A road paver isn’t paid for destruction, removal, transportation, laying concrete etcetera. He’s paid for a completed road. Everyday citizens who work in an office, how many are paid to drive to work? None, but it’s just as much work getting to work isn’t it but they’re still only paid for time at work doing work.
Drivers who are getting paid by the mile, usually don’t have to commute to work, and those that do usually don’t do it every day or even every other day. Doing you’re pretrip, post trip, loading and unloading is like your commute.
Me? I don’t get paid by the mile I get paid per the load. Factors that I charge my customers are weight, length of haul, what’s being hauled, value of freight etc. Whether I pay my drivers by the mile, by the load, percentage of load, or even by the hour, it’s going to work out to being about the same. The only way you’ll make more is if you take more risk and work for me based on percentage of profit, you lease on, or you work for yourself. So please drivers, stop whining about doing work for free because you’re getting paid for it, it’s part of your job and you’re getting paid unless your company is going bankrupt.
Rob says
Well Ed, you certainly give the Top Down scenario with a pompous self righteous attitude. The fact is you went off track to rant about drivers and I’m calling you on it. You are trying to tell me I’m getting paid for driving fifty miles within two zip codes doing multiple picks or drops over one or two days before I can actually get my run started. We know this is because the company make more money doing this, this same company then turns around and pays me virtually nothing for all this work until I run miles. They then lie to me and say the loads didn’t pay much or at all and hold my cheques or pay me barely minimum before tax. This happens to thousands of drivers who are not “paid” for all the extra work despite your saying so. This has happened to me in every company but one and that one company could only give me side work as they had little turn over. Company owners make fortunes off the backs of their hired slaves and rip lease op’s a new one. I quit the industry because of the B.S. and attitudes like yours. I hope you get a dose of REALITY ed.
WING says
Nonsense Ed! Any time that the driver is away from home should be paid. If the driver is OTR, then if he is not at the home terminal AND off duty, meaning no where near the truck, he.she is tending to company business.
This idea you try to feed us that we are getting paid for a product, well, that is correct only in one sense. And that is for our TIME. and we all know that we don’t get paid for our time.
We must run on a time clock, but the industry, from it’s near inception, has cheated every driver who has ever been paid CPM.
If you are out 168 hours a week, then you should be paid hourly, as your are running on a clock.
It is your and the industries idea, since the beginning , to use the driver as a slave to make you money, FLSA included.
Your dogma says ” give me a pretrip,post trip, loading/unloading for for free!?
If a driver wants to contract,lease(pay you to drive your truck..HA!), percentage of load, then they must weigh the costs of doing so. TIME doesn’t change. You must still run on the clock.
What’s your time worth….. Drivers?
10.00 an hour for 168 hours away from home, minding the boss’s buisiness , including off duty time, which still leaves the driver responsible for the rig and load ,is 1,680.00 .
If you don’t think you’ll be held responsible if someone steals the rig and load, hits it in the truck stop… you have to account for it all…
Just let the train run off the track and see who gets the blame!
IZ says
YES YOU ARE NUTS!! ONE GUESS WERNER!
Russell Graham says
We can only blame ourselves for this. We all know that there are to many drivers on the road killing innocent people. These drivers run with no sleep or hours off and crash. I have been driving for over 20 years, I do not like the aspect that my dispatcher can now control my availability. I also believe in these devices, because now my dispatcher can not push me over my hours or force dispatch me if I can not do it legally. Remember if we all drive legally and safe equipment we would not need DOT or HOS devices. What needs to be done is to have this new half hour rule removed, all it dose is force drivers to be at work for 2- 1/2 hours longer a week, with no pay. If the Feds. upped the pay scale and reduced the hours and upped the minimum requirements to get a CDL the industry would be safe and profitable once again. The bottom line is there are too many un-qualified drivers on the road and that’s the problem that should be addressed. As long as companies hire un-qualified drivers and pay them nothing we will see the logistics industry only get worse, not better. Example 3 Mexicans living in a truck and never stopping except to fuel and un-load, with no living expenses they can work for $.30 a mile even if the can not drive the company dose not care as long as they make a profit. Another detriment to this industry is out of country shippers bring freight in and out of the USA taking jobs from Americans, and not having to follow the same DOT or FMCSA guidelines, thus making it more profitable for companies to use them and more dangerous rather then using American drivers.
Lets face facts the top 3 JB Hunt, Schneider, and Swift will always do as they want and will continue to use out of country shippers and will continue to bring the standard of this industry into the toilet. With them paying the bottom of the scale and hiring the most un-qualified drivers on the roads today we will pay the price with the Feds. and the FMCSA. So all I can say is we a screwed and the only way to stop being screwed is to retire or leave this profession.
mark says
Stop it sidewalk sissy it the best thing ever happen to us. No more 3 am b.s no more favors everyone. On a level playing field
Ermott says
Well… This will stop the cheaters, the “Old Skool” drivers who think nothing of waiting around a loading yard all day, driving all night and those who find it perfectly acceptable to do all sorts of work for “free”.
OOBRs are the first step in getting paid by the hour and for the work you do. It’s about time too.
Richard A. says
I think an important question is: why are drivers continuing to work for companies who don’t compensate them fairly for their work time? I haul fuel for Trimac, and we are paid for everything except vehicle inspections and fuelling.
Wait in line to load -PAID, wait for repairs-PAID, problem at customer site- PAID, frozen brakes on trailer-PAID…and so on. As long as we record a reason on our trip sheet, we are paid for it. The icing on the cake, overtime after ten hours. Find a good company. We run e-logs and EOBRs as well, but the drivers still make a good wage.
Z trucker says
Stop whining ladies and boycott the law you are in power
we the people
I m not gonna be one hour away on a saturday from home and wait till monday to have weekend with my family because eobr even tough its supposed to be an 9 hours driving excepting all the bad weather or accidents slowing you down
they will have to explain that to my wife and my kids why I have to become a robot controlled by a little machine instead going to sleep when I m tired and not beeing able to be with them in weekends because I have to wait an hour away from home to reset lil goverment machine
John says
The problem that is being overlooked, is the human factor. Apparently the government, FMCSA, etc, all think that THEY know when a driver should be tired, when that driver should fall asleep, and when that driver should wake up. As a human being, every driver, every person, every employee, every self employed person, even the humans at FMSCA, KNOW when they are tired, and they go to bed. Human beings, whether they drive trucks or not, do no ‘come with’ an ‘off’ and ‘on’ button, they cannot be dictated to as to when they are tired, when they are hungry, when they need to go to the bathroom, etc.
In ‘the old days’ we could eat when we were hungry, and just show an off duty, a period of resting from driving, and come back refreshed, with a different attitude perhaps. If we needed to stop to stretch our legs, we could do that for a few minutes without some machine ticking away our driving time while we simply went to the bathroom. (I can’t help but wonder if we’ll see an increase of ‘yellow bottles’ beside the roads?) If we were close to a city during rush hour times, we could simply pull over for a few hours, catch a nap, and move on after traffic had died down. We were as refreshed during these times as people working in offices who take a ‘power nap’, and could drive on to our destinations. We, the human behind the wheel, knew how to use our 10-11 hours of driving to get us safely where we needed to be.
With the ‘new’ hours of regulation, we cannot decide for ourselves if we need a little nap…except after 8 1/2 hours when we ‘must’ take a break….we cannot avoid rush hour traffic in the cities, we are forced to drive through, putting ourselves at a higher risk of an accident because everyone knows how ‘rush hour’ is, and how the people drive during those times….like there isn’t going to be any tomorrow. No matter how safely we may drive, there’s always ‘the other guy’ who is always in a hurry, will fill any ‘safety space’ you may leave yourself, and there is always cars #10-31 coming off the ramp that think they need to be included your ‘nice guy’ space you left for the first nine. When the weather is bad, we used to be able judge for ourselves that it was too bad for driving, and pull over, sometimes for just a short time and the conditions improved. With these new hours, we are forced into pushing on, through the blinding snowstorms, the pouring down rain, and we even risk pushing through tornadoes.
Why? Why do we so such things that go beyond the scope of common sense? Because there is a tick, tick, tick, of an electronic ‘on board’ device that is eating up the hours we can drive. There is no safety issue in this. It is the product of someone, somewhere, who has never driven an 18-wheeler, never used their own common sense, and probably never had a good idea in their life, but feels the need to be important somehow. So, they wheel their chair around their office, probably didn’t take a pre-employment drug test, and most likely doesn’t participate in any drug testing program, and dream up devices to impede common-sensed human beings, create ‘shortages’ of any type, and drive up the cost of doing business.
STOP trying to regulate human beings!!
mike says
I’ve been directing a trucking company for 2 yrs now. Our main client is into construction which makes scheduling our ten trucks extremely difficult. These devices are going to piss off my drivers by adding yet another detail to their already wild day. As the director, dispatcher, safety officer and salesman for this business. I’ve found the best way to compensate my drivers is by paying them hourly for their duties. If they sit waiting at a job or warehouse then they are on duty and paid for it. If they stop lock their trucks for meals or the truck is in shop for repairs, they are off duty not paid. If they are broke down on the road and waiting on service then they are paid. If they are tired and call me I’ll tell them shut down. I’m honest with my guys and they with me. Doing the math their pay averages to about .45 cents/mile. I don’t want these devices and neither do my drivers.
michael says
This will fix nothing. There is away around that little system. I worked for a big company that already uses them. I found away to bypass it so I could use paperloggs. I knew I found what I did worked when my dispatcher called me and said ” why are you still in Wildwood Fl? You are suppose to be in Atlanta Ga dropping.” I asked what was he talking about I already droped. He said that not what it shows me. Then 3 months of running on paper they got me by the yard and reset it. Ran on it for a week and did it again and got same results. I am an old school hate government and laws so I will find ways around them if I cant find away around it I dont do it. CHP hates me cause I beat all their speeding tickets cause I will run 70 mph so they will say I clocked you at 70 but I am going to write you for 65. They call it selling the ticket but they just falsefied a legal document just as a log book page. Its all caught and recorded on dash cam.
Ty says
Im gonna quit my job in 2 years for sure
Ron says
I kinda like the Peoplenet thing. I’d rather have a Qualcomm because I can edit it myself but the Peoplenet is still editable, just gotta send in a macro and tell em what and when. Presto, changed and good to go. Can’t edit the driving line. I have had some issues with Peoplenet stealing minutes from me. Happened 2 times that I know of. If you take off and you are still on Off Duty, it will automatically change you to Driving after 1 mile but it pinches 5 minutes from your Off Duty time. I did complain quite vocal about this since in effect the Peoplenet is submitting false logs. Seems like its been changed and now it only pinches maybe a minute and that would be more accurate. 1 minutes should equal 1 mile more or less unless you are in some really heavy traffic.
Bob says
Doesn’t bother me a bit. I have run both with and without Eobrs and yes I am an owner/operator. I have many friends that talk big and yell that’s it I quit. To all of you that want to quit please do so and hurry up and stop crying. You are just leaving more money and freight out there for me! Yippee my wife can now have that big diamond she always wanted! So hurry up and quit already!
Raford says
I can’t wait to see what’s next.
hey man says
I currently used e-logs. I don’t have any trouble out of dispatch. they can see my hours. but they don’t bully drivers into driving in unsafe driving conditions. more over. the old school guys. they have a lot of trouble with understanding how to use the e-log. and how to maximize the hours a week. which means they were logging right to begin with on paper logs. the biggest benefit I see with the e-log. 5 to 8 hrs gained back every week over paper logs. d.o.t. never bothers me about the log book. no adding up hours or filling out and keeping up a paper log book. the down side. stuck in traffic is now stuck in traffic. have to stop the truck in places where there may not be showers,food,or drinks. finding a parking spot in a truck stop before the e-log runs out of time. another good benefit. I get average of 593 to 683 miles per 11 hours shift. it logs the drive time separate from the 14 hour clock. where I work many drivers do have trouble with making anything with the e-log. they simply refuse to let go of old habits, learn to plan the trip on a day by day bases. and they forget to change duty status. it’s that simple.
why do drivers hate e-logs? simple, it forces them to work for a living. it cuts down on what they can and can’t do. they can’t falsify the e-log to get more driving hours. it also shows if a driver is really a good driver. or a bad driver that doesn’t know their job well enough to be efficient and productive. pretty much it shows who’s a worker and works hard. and who is a lazy non working bum. that like hopping truck stop to truck stop.
Scott Rupert says
The issue, at least for me, is am I free or not? I have driven for nearly 30 years; logged over 3 million safe miles; all while keeping my own schedule. I agreed to a set of rules when I chose this profession, and abide by them still. I am an owner/operator because a company driver is not free, nor should they be. After all, they are letting someone else bear the risk. If companies choose to use EOBR, that is certainly there prerogative. But, I’m not willing to allow my government to manage my work schedule to the degree they desire. I have been working my way out of debt for 5 years, so that when the time came to take a stand, I would be FREE to do so.
Brandon Davis says
I thank the e logs is ok but I do thank that when I’m off duty just sitting at a shipper or con I’m not working so why is my 14 hour still running I’m not on duty its stupid the 30. Min break is dumb as well it is good how ever to stretch every now and then the only thing is some of these roughts u run have now were to park so if u get stuck some were in a route like this your screwed….and working the 14 hour that runs all day is very dangerous it makes u rush all day which makes u a dangerous driver ….I have had the expirence of being in traffics jam running out of hours and no were to park…dispatch tells u well u should have known your route u will just have to do what u have to or call a police escort….my biggest complaint other than 14 hour clock is the critical event monitoring…. For instance some one cuts u off slames on breaks quailcomm goes off u have to go to terminal and take a class on how to break regardless of situation…. Or like my new truck I just got went on off ramp 10 mph Qualcomm goes off for critical event for roll over now I have to go to a class for it…..I fill like a teenager that just got my learner license …ok system but definitely needs some over look and some fixing
Road champion says
If so many truckers didn’t violate the hos rules, be involved in so many crashes, due to the fact you think you can drive 18-24 hrs straight this crap would have never happen. I drove without electronic for 5 years with no violations and now I drive with e logs for 3 years counting with no violations so far. It don’t bother me, I stop when I’m tired my main focus is to delivery on time which i do adjust, and adapt folks or move over to someone who will
Scott Rupert says
Of all accidents involving a large truck, the truck is at fault in 25 percent. According to FMCSA, in 2010, of all fatal truck crashes, only 1.4 percent were the result of driver fatigue.
This is not about safety, it’s about control. The most recent changes to HOS were also not about safety, but about creating jobs, by making those of us who are working less productive.
IZ says
YOU SIR, ARE FULL OF CRAP ABOUT THE 18-24 hrs. I am an O/O, yes a true O/O with my own authority. You cannot drive 18-24 hrs and successfully hide it in a loose leaf log anymore, PERIOD! Also next time you see a wreck check the name on the truck,bet it will be some big company that is more concerned with running a driver mill than moving freight!
troy says
Just to let you in on a little fact..88% of the accidents involving big trucks happen within the first two hours of returning to driving …Less then 2% of the accidends where driver fatigue was to blame…Were drivers who had ran out of hours either on the 11 hour rule or the 70 hour rule….72% of the accidents involving big trucks happen in the first Three fays after returning to work after a 34 hour restart..
The facts just dont back up the things you say..These are the actual numbers state by state since the log book became a requirement…For those of you to young to remember…logs were on a volunteer basis at first…We will never use it to harass drivers..Its just for safety… Two years later ..it became mandatory… This is how they redistribue money…To be for this is suicidal…
brian says
I won’t drive a truck with an eobr in it. So goes another 16 year driver…great job Anne Ferro. Take another ride and figure oit what YOUR suppose to be doing in your job.
brian says
I typed you’re. Stupid autocorrect
brian says
Seriously? your. Not capitalized. Seriously.
Kai says
I use paper logs, and my logs are always accurate. I might run 11-12 hours in a day, with a 30 minute break somewhere in between. Aside from the break, I’m either driving or on duty. Of course, I run 5 days a week and I’m off on the weekends so it really doesn’t matter at all to me one way or another.
Brian says
Theirs no way they can prove that if they mandate the obrs that it will stop fatigue drivers the driver is the only who knows if he is safe to drive and feels safe doing it
Steve LaFleur says
Everybody who screams about loss of freedoms, invasion of privacy, and holds onto that notion of the last American cowboy riding on a steel horse …. that era is done. We get piss tested and background checked to death, and they basically do not want over fatigued drivers on the highways.
Instead of burning paper, and taking your toys and going home when the mandate goes into effect, why not have a constructive voice and address the REAL problems that this industry faces? You’ll cook your books, but take it up the ass when a receiver detains you for 14 hours.
I’ve been in this industry for 35 years. I used to be as outlaw as outlaw can get. It’s a lot less stressful for me to run legal, work hard and yes, I’ve used a couple of variants of E-Logs for the last 11 years. Have they inconvenienced me a time or two? Sure. But it certainly keeps you from being strong-armed from dispatched to “make it happen”. Puts the burden on them when things SNAFU out, which we all know they do.
Do any of you fans of paper logs think for a second that E-logs can’t be manipulated? Time can’t be buried, Geo-Fences exploited, etc.? Yeah, you can’t pop a couple of yellow jackets and go 24 hours straight, but who the hell wants to do that anymore?
Stop whining about control. You are in a regulated industry for a reason. I don’t care if you are an owner operator with your own authority, the rules apply to you too. You are FREE to choose to break them, with less scrutiny, but you are still breaking them. If you weren’t, they wouldn’t be mandating this to begin with. Do the math.
I risk my life in company owned equipment right next to you. I wouldn’t change a thing if I decide to purchase back into being an independent. So, if you are running over hours and make a bad decision that kills me, the playing field is level. My responsibility is no less than yours.
It’s not about creating more jobs. Idle trucks in truck-stops following the 14 hour rule take more parking spots, burn more fuel, and congest up the highways more. I think what we need to do is attack the problems that create the need for driver’s to break hours of service rules, not the actual hours of service rules themselves. The only thing I disagree with is that the 30 minute break shouldn’t go against your 14 hour clock.
That’s piss poor planning, detention at shippers and receivers, dispatchers who have no regard for a persons needs.
I make good money, run 70 hours a week, and do my best to get a 9 axle 143,000 lb. vehicle up and down the road without hurting anyone. That tattle-box may be my best friend someday.
Alejandro says
Control? We have logs now. It doesn’t matter if they are electronic or not. Compliance is law and the elogs enforce it better than paper.
It seems like most here want to keep on cheating.
Roadghost says
I have to laugh at the “$398.4 million” savings bit. These guys don’t have a clue how much more it’s going to cost the economy once those EOBRs go in and drivers start shutting down 30% earlier than they do with logbooks. In the short run it will be hell for truck drivers trying to earn a living, but in the long run I think it will be better. There will be less pressure on drivers to break the law and they will end up being paid more money for less work. I’m guessing 3 years after they go in there will be a push to lengthen hours of service, because 11 hours just ain’t going to get the job done folks.
Brian says
It is going to take a toll on tje economy. Big time. Some of you were cheering for the 30 minute break and 34 hr rules. Efficiency is down what? 4%? Multiply the billions of miles ran each year by 4% and tell me that doesnt affect the economy. How about all the small companies that will be put out of business just because of the initial cost of buying equipment, software, etc. Of course the ATA is all for it, it gets rid of the competition. Some of you will never get it, but you don’t cut your face off because there’s a pimple on your nose. You don’t do sweeping regulations over millions of people because 1% screwed up.
charles says
Regulating the HOS makes unsafe tired drivers. In the old days if a driver was tired or didn’t feel safe driving he could stop and sleep then start driving when he felt safe and rested. Now with the HOS restrictions we have 11 hours of driving in a window of 14 hours to be productive. We are under pressure to run all the mile we can legally, but not necessarily safely. EOBR’s are not the answer to safe drivers. While hourly wages will take the focus off production, they lack regulation. Drivers will be tempted to ride the clock in the name of safety. So who pays the price for safety? The shippers, the truck company or the drivers? If you want safe drivers, someone has to pay.
Susan says
I have one and every time I take my required 30 min break an hour is added to my drive time my last break I took with 5 mins to spare on my 8 hours that should have left me 3 1/2 hours but when I logged back on to driving I had 41/2 hours to drive so go ahead put em in they will soon see how flawed they are
Ricky says
Well I’m officially done driving a truck in 2 years! To Scott Rupert I wish you were running in indiana, I would vote for you! I have family in Ohio and I will be telling them about you.
Jason says
I got to say, you drivers that just can’t seem to figure out, that this is NOT about the ELD’s, simply amaze me. It is simply about the fact that this is one more rule/reg that will cost the driver more money yet, drivers don’t make any more. The cost of this career just keeps getting higher and higher but, we all just take it. Some of you are saying your going to be done with the industry, I salute you for being able to do that. I just turned 46 and have been doing this since 2008. I love the Industry but hate the regulation. That does NOT mean I want to cheat or break the laws! Didn’t all of you want to move out of your mom/dads house when you were 18? Didn’t you all want to move out to be your own boss, do your own thing? Doesn’t our Constitution give us freedom? Are we not suppose to have Personal Responsibility? We don’t NEED any more rules/regs from the Government. I use an app on my IPhone and love it! If the company I am tied to wants to mandate ELD’s than fine, that is their business.
hey man says
couldn’t say it better myself. buuuttt, what the regs and rules all about anyways. they are painting a pretty picture. to cover what they are really after. they want to cross border program to go full swing. the opposition is strong on the American side to close it. so they are making up harder and harder rules and regs. just so trucking will be to expensive for American truckers. so once they deplete the American trucking industry by running us off the road. they will sit back and say they had no choice other then to open the cross border fully in order to save America. making they’re selves look like hero’s. when the plan was all along to get the cheap truckers from crossed the border up here in the first place. what is it all really about? truly, money and control! they stand to rake in huge piles of money off the program. and gain control of the American people. so they can do what they want. it is the American trucker that is holding them from it… they are going to win it. why? because the make the laws. and they control the authorities to enforce it on groups of people who are getting in the way… that is what it is really and truly about. why else has Canadian trucks depleted in America. and latin America trucks have doubled in America. so either shut up and find away to make it work. or watch as the last of the American jobs go south.
WING says
license plate cams……cams everywhere… just fodder for litigation.
Ray says
Talk, talk, talk, no lazy old truck driver will ever do a d@mn thing except gripe on a forum LOL!
WING says
side stepped the studies Congress mandate. Hummmmm… sounds like the Office of Budget and Mangement…i.e. O-BUMmERcare.
We do really reside in a Socialist society.
No spine…just decline.
rossy says
Here is how I see this… screw over the O/O by making them play at the company driver level. Those who say these are needed to make them safe from the big bad dispatcher; quit or man up. Seriously that’s the biggest load of BS I’ve heard. Trucking use to be in your blood. It was a lifestyle. So leave it for those that want the lifestyle and go get your 9-5 job elsewhere!
Joe Daddy says
I left “trucking” a year ago. I owned my Pete 387 and hauled cars then frac sand. I made great money but just couldn’t rationalize the risk anymore. I used paper logs and got my loads there on time and safe. I cannot and will not comply with nonsensical laws and regs.
Now I deliver loads with a one ton flatbed. 95% of the time without a trailer. Do I gross what I did before? No! Do I keep about the same, absolutely! I love working closely with the oil/gas industry. They understand compensation!!! They understand safety, freedom, respect and most of all value hard work. I’ve never been happier in this industry. Its not for everyone but its working great for me. Its actually quite simple introduce yourself to the tool pusher and who ever else is in charge and do what you say you will, don’t bitch or whine and you can turn a great profit. I drive a fully tuned truck equipped with oil by pass, auxiliary fuel filters, all the goodies inside. If I am detained I charge $35 an hour after the first 2. I just pop in a DVD and enjoy a.movie but this happens rarely.
If your sick of the low pay, crappy image truck drivers have, working with degenerate peers then do something different! Trucking is for losers now. They want ignorant, uneducated, followers not independent minded MEN who have the skills to run a business by themselves. I sold $230,000 of equipment without a second thought. It was a lovely gig while I was free once the idiotic laws and regs became too much to bear I DID SOMETHING ABOUT
doghousd says
i have no problem with an electronic leash, only if they change our rules back to where we can split our sleeper how we NEED TO, and get rid of the stupid 14 hr rule because. shippers and recievers dont care about our rules and companies and brokers dont want to pay detention for time we’ve lost , its a no win situation for the drivers, you cant run,you cant sleep , you dont get paid to sit. i feel its time for drivers to start stocking up on vaseline
TruckerMike says
They work fine over in Europe…..
AmishEcstasy says
So let me get this straight……. An agency of the US government is proposing yet ANOTHER program to reduce costs, reduce bureaucracy, and reduce paperwork and make it easier on business owners and workers ?
Insert laugh track here……..
troy says
I want to see you pay for a $130,000 truck and a $25000. Trailer ..obamacare and do it with eloggs you can’t….. not with fuel at 400 per gal…and the prices at truck stops…All this is to stop you from doing what we were able to do in the 60 70 80 and 90..The big boys dont want competition…..
bbq Dave says
After 40+ years as an owner operator, company driver and safety tech. I think I’ll quit the industry. Shame on you all for not even being able to get together and fight for yourselves. Why even the lumpers have done better than you have. You are so dammed independent and throat cutting you will just stand by and let them ( US GOVERMENT and SPECIAL INTREST GROUPS) regulate your industry without even trying to fight as a group. You say I’m only one driver what can I do… Well I ask you this, who is the one that is stopping at truckstops , shippers and receivers on a daily basis? Get off your independent asses and sign petions then mail them in to your congressmen. Yeah I. Know your excuses, I don’t have time.. You don’t have time not to! I don’t know that many drivers. So what if you only get ten names on your petions, if every driver got ten names on a petion and sent it in how many would the overall picture be? There are many attorneys out there that would be willing to help…IF YOU ARE WILLING HELP YOURSELVES . GOOD LUCK OUT THERE BE SAFE AND GOD SPEED.
Shannon says
They’ll make there money up in parking tickets, there already isn’t enough room to park in truck stops. So the highways will be lined up with trucks parking because everybody is out of hours for the day or week. truck stops are already full of trucks because of drivers stop driving at 5 in the afternoon. Maybe since this is such a good idea they can fix that problem also. And stop truck stops from charging to park. if I have no choice but to stop I shouldn’t be charged.
jack says
Please everyone don’t work in December let’s all take 1 month off. Everyone!!!!
Mike smith says
I really don’t see how elogs are safer I see the trucks running them they don’t even slow down through the small towns , yes dispatch does harass the drivers because they can see your hours , probably will be the end of my driving career , I ran them gor got harassed just not worth it to me