4/6/13: Update added at the end of article
Hot on the heels of their discussion on new driver training and how to better ensure the quality of new drivers, the FMCSA has set new CDL testing standards. Hidden among the other new rules that most people will never hear about is the new provision that allows CDL Training schools to test their own students, as long as examiners do not administer skill tests to the same drivers they personally trained.
This may seem like a bit of a mental leap for the FMCSA, but perhaps if they’re trying to ensure a better quality of new drivers, they shouldn’t give CDL training schools the ability to issue the CDL skills test to their own students!
There are several benefits for a CDL school with a very high pass/fail ratio. From a marketing standpoint, a prospective student is likely to see the school with the best ratio as the most desirable school. A higher pass/fail ratio also means a higher job placement percentage, an equally appealing statistic for new drivers. Both of these statistics increase the amount of money a school can charge their students.
Most large CDL schools will not only get paid tuition by the student, but also stand to earn referral fees from the trucking companies that hire their graduates. This means that a student who earns their CDL is much more valuable to a school than one who fails.
Traditionally, the drive for high pass/fail ratios, a higher job placement percentage, and the added referral fees meant that it was in the school’s best interest to give their students the training they need to pass. Now however, if it’s the schools themselves giving the exams, there is no incentive for the schools to do a good job. In fact, as long as they provide the driver with the bare minimum amount of training necessary to pass the written exam, they stand to make more even more money than before while providing even worse training.
Now, admittedly, this sort of thing has been allowed in places where there is no other testing facility within 50 miles, but it’s not supposed to happen unless this is true. Some of the larger CDL mill type schools though have been doing this sneakily for a long time. Now they don’t even have to hide it and smaller schools will think that because it’s allowed, that makes it okay.
How can the FMCSA expect schools to remain unbiased in their exam judgments when they stand to make more money for every student they pass, regardless of their ability?
These few sentences have the horrible potential to take the new driver training quality issue and magnify it ten-fold. These new rules haven’t gone into effect yet. And in a world where a jury just awarded $58.5 million to a family after a man was killed by an inadequately trained truck driver, let’s make sure the FMCSA realizes their blunder before it’s too late.
Update 4/6/13: Many comments are asking how this is a change from the current law. Currently, some schools are allowed to use their own instructors to certify their own students. These schools have been granted this ability in cases where there is limited opportunity to be certified by a government employee, the most common reason being that the school is not close to a government testing center that has the capacity to certify CDL drivers. The new law would expand the number of schools that certify their own students.
If you think that drivers entering the industry today couldn’t possibly be more unprepared than they are currently… just wait and watch what happens.
From the comments section: As a previous instructor for one of these companies I was told to pass everyone onto the testing portion where one of the other instructors that was dl170 certified would test the students and pass them even if the person should not be even allowd to be in the passenger seat of a truck. These students were pushed on to a trainer which was probably someone that just got out of school themselves. With less than a week, usually 3-4 days of actual driving they are given a licence to drive a truck. This is the main reason Ileft this company. -Andy
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John says
Its very scary to think that a school can now have this much control. We already have seen the scandal in regular education like just what happened in Atlanta with teachers fixing test scores. Do we really think we can trust a bad school not to try and help its cause? The only saving grace is risk.
Will companies risk more to hire from a school that in the end provides companies with students that do not know how to safely drive a truck? You can fix a bad test, but you cannot hide from a bad student.
Wozzer says
Is this really new? I went through a company school years and years ago and never took a road test with an independent state examiner. Everything was done in house minus the written test. It is in the company’s interest to train you right. A CDL school though, yes, has an incentive to graduate. However wouldn’t they be on the hook too ultimately for improper training? I can see how this could be bad, but from stories I have read of schools charging 12k for training or even 5k – that is a much bigger issue. That is robbery IMO.
Tim says
I went through a company school too and never took a state road test. Don’t remember where I took the written but it must have been back in my home state.
Those school fees always mystified me. Why would anyone fork out that kind of money up front instead of attending a company school for free with transportation, meals and lodging paid, in return for merely agreeing to stay hired for six months? You don’t need a master’s degree to drive truck. So what if the pay package shorts your cpm a little compared to other newbie jobs to get some of that back – it doesn’t add up to thousands of dollars in just six months.
That company school I attended was an excellent school, too.
andy says
As a previous instructor for one of these companies I was told to pass everyone onto the testing portion where one of the other instructors that was dl170 certified would test the students and pass them even if the person should not be even allowd to be in the passenger seat of a truck. These students were pushed on to a trainer which was probably someone that just got out of school themselves. With less than a week, usually 3-4 days of actual driving they are given a licence to drive a truck. This is the main reason Ileft this company. It is scary to think that when you go by one of these trucks, the person behind the wheel is way underqualified to have control of that vehical. That is just great fmcsa…… smart move. NOT. And you want to make the roads safer? How? By giving these large companies the ok to kill someones family? I am pretty disappointed by this move. If anyone has anymore questions just ask me.
average Joe says
You think this is scary? I’m guessing your unaware of the fact that the large companies such as Central Refrigerated and Swift have been allowed to do this for years. Hire them, train them, license them, with no regard for human life then receive a government stimulus payment because they took someone without a job gave them a trade and employed them for a year. If you have ever participated in one of the get your license and a job schools you would know you sign a contract and agree to pay X amount of dollars if you stop working within the year you signed the contract for in the contract it states “it is the cost for the school” but I’m banking it’s for the lost revenue from uncle nobama.
Dragantraces says
“I’m banking it’s for the lost revenue from uncle nobama.”
Aw, c’mon, this kind of silly junk gets so freaking old.
This is FMCSA stuff from long before this administration; it’s instigation had nothing to do with the current president. This practice was in place years before you ever heard of Obama.
Instead of trying to derail the conversation with political spew, how about addressing the issue of Federal Student Loan monies going to any vocational/technical school? These education-for-profit businesses have minimal accreditation standards to meet, and, in fact, don’t actually have to meet even those standards. They simply have to get an accrediting body to sign off on them. (I went through through the accreditation process while working in the placement department of a ‘respected’ voc/tech school. I’ve seen it first hand.) It is a sadly common practice in all fields of study. The “rate of placement” factor is a joke, particularly if the school is a part of a company that hires new graduates, as is very common in the trucking industry. And if, as is the usual in trucking, a student doesn’t fulfill their work commitment, no matter the reason — including misrepresentation by the school or intolerable abuses by trainers or the hiring company— the student is on the hook for any loan outstanding. This is a situation that just begs for money-hungry confidence artists (Such as who, you ask? Name a company that trains and you are likely accurately picking one.) to come in and practice their skills with, not just the rubber stamp of the military/industrial/congressional complex Republican President Eisenhower warned us about over 50 years ago, but with a check from them as well. A check that is coming out of the pockets of all US taxpayers, truckers and non-truckers alike.
Mario says
We already have that in Georgia, its just with the technical schools that have CDL classes.
ga chickenhauler says
here in ga you still have to go to drivers services to get your CDL
Last Mohican says
I guess it all depends on how bad they need drivers and how much safety they can afford to sacrifice. I see CDL-mills milking this to the last drop in the very near future. Just be extra cautious around the “usual suspects”.
dagreth says
Schools are a business, they don’t make money failing students and sending them home. Don’t count on the schools to police the trucking industry.
james says
I went through a school that had in class room training to go over the paperwork side of having a CDL, as well as watching several training videos. When i went to the yard to start driving, they had 6 instructors who worked with students in the yard practicing backing, driving around the area, and even administering a “school test” which according to what I was told was the same skills you would show a DOT examiner on the road test (minus the backing) but the criteria to pass the school test was higher than the DOT test. The DOT examiner was an employee of the school was certified by DOT to administer the test, but never interacted with the students until it was their turn to actually attempt to get the CDL. In fact, we all knew what the actual test would entail because we drove part of it during our school test (we just drove further out) the part nobody knew except the examiner was what backing skills tests we were to perform so we did all of the backing exercises to practice.
adam says
Sounds similar to the school i went to. Although some of the instructors were also examiners. Just wore a different hat on test day. The examiners were encouraged to be strict because state dot folks liked to spy on them from the freeway and send people through the school just to purposely fail the test. They were very closely regulated.
josh says
This has already been happening for years. Roadmaster in columbus, ohio has been doing this for over a decade. When I got my cdl 12 years ago from roadmaster their trainers were also state certified examiners. And furthermore in columbus the exam site for cdl road testing is Roadmaster Driving School. I can personally attest to how pathetic the training at such a school is. I learned only how to pass the test. Nothing more! And the so called training companies that hired from roadmaster were a joke. I quit my training company and went to work for a factory in shipping/receiving dept. There I trained myself via yard dog and an old beat up mack truck. From there I was able to get back on the road and be a safe driver with 1 million safe miles. But only on my own was that possible. Roadmaster, the state of ohio, and training companies had nothing to do with my abilities to drive a truck.
Bruce says
The real thing is when the newbie gets trained by A (TRAINER) thats where the focus needs to be. We all Know as Drivers that 2 yrs of Driving OTR at Least Before any Company should let A Driver Train!!!
Plumkrazee says
The ability to acquire a CDL is in no way connected to the ability to drive! As ANY professional driver knows, just because ne holds a CDL, does not make them a Professional Truck Driver. They used to be called “paper mills”! In at the front door with $3500.00, and out the back door with a piece of paper, and a set of keys!
It is a sad state our profession is in, these days!
John H says
You got that right. One big problem I see too is even the the test DOT gives you requires minimal skill at least in Arkansas anyways. I’ve been at it for about 3 years now and I can honestly say the first couple months on my own I was pretty clueless. Lucky for me I had a trainer that kept up with me and helped alot even after I was turned loose on my own.
merlinn says
I spent two years as an instructor at a truck driving school. We tested our own students and failed those who didn’t meet the standards, written and driving. The CDL test was given by an an instructor, state certified to administer the test, who had not taught the student. Every test I gave was with the knowledge that these drivers would be sharing the road with ME. I graded accordingly. I didn’t pass everyone.
Andy says
It’s been like this for year. I am a licenses dl 170 examiner myself. I am an instructor at the school as well. I test the same way the DMV does and I will not pass a bad driver. I fail people every week. I don’t see an issue with it. It’s been this way for years. Not a new story trucker report. Sorry to burst your bubble
Samuel Barradas says
Andy, I’m glad to hear that you are an examiner with real standards. The same can’t be said for all examiners, and the law provides a financial incentive for schools to lower their standards.
John says
All driving schools do it teach someone to pass the test. They don’t teach people how to DRIVE!
Just look at all the 4 wheelers out there, they passed a state administered test but most have no clue about sharing the road, all they now is how to put it in gear, step on the gas and go.
Tim says
I got my CDL from a sage training facility at at community college. After 140+ course I graduated with the highest score, still had not mastered shifting and could not log properly and I was suppose to be the best, a scary thought . We were told we would master all of this on the road. I drove OTR for a year and did master it, however I was in no way prepared. So, I agree, I paid my 3,500 went in the front door and came out the back door with a CDL. I agree that the drivers need better training, but the industry as a Whole gets no respect and no real reward for a job well done so I don’t do it anymore. Wish I could be more positive but I don’t see how it can be fixed.
Davyd says
This one is for tim how long ago did you go to sage ? And where is the school located ? I’m considering going and i’ll be paying upfront $5228.00 there supposed to be the # 1 trucking school in the nation, 1 driver 1 student 1 truck, im undecided that’s ALOT of money to dish out.
Stuart says
This startling new law…. has been a very common practice in many states for many years. Our school in CO used this exact same arrangement described here 2000-2001 period. Schools in IN same deal for years and years. Not sure where someone has “reported” that this is so startling and new?!?! Tens of thousands of CDL drivers have started safe careers with this ‘flawed’ model.
Samuel Barradas says
States have granted exceptions to some schools and allowed them to do their own testing. The new law would greatly expand the number of schools that do their own testing. Not all students that come out of these programs are unsafe, but the reason it’s a problem is because the law gives big financial incentives for schools to pass even the unsafe students right alongside the safe students.
Chris says
I am the owner/director of DCS School of Driving, located in York, Pennsylvania. At our school, students are tested by employees of the school, but these are state certified testers who have absolutely no contact with the students until the actual test time. On top of that, I believe that we have THE most difficult test route in Pennsylvania. Certainly much more difficult than that of our local Driver License Center. Our test, for example, lasts a little over two hours start to finish. The driver license center does the entire test in less than one. You WILL NOT pass our test unless you are truely able to drive. Our graduates are routinely mistaken for seasoned drivers when they take their company road tests. We have several companies in the area who will not hire from a school except for us. One company has a requirement of 5 years of experience or a graduate of DCS School of Driving. That, to me, is the ultimate compliment.
It is important to understand that because the various state DOT’s do not want to spend money, it is almost REQUIRED that schools test their own students. At our local DMV, they conduct 6 tests per week, all on Wednesday. It takes 6 weeks to get an appointment. So, any driver that fails any part of their test would have to wait 6 weeks to retest…. and then another 6 if they needed to retest again. It simply is not feasible to expect a student to potentially go for 23 weeks — almost 6 months! (5 weeks of class, plus 6 weeks 1st test, 6 weeks 2nd test, 6 weeks 3rd test) without a job.
If anyone can come up with a better solution, I am willing to listen. Even having schools test each others students is not a valid solution… I am a lot more willing to PASS someone who is borderline from another school knowing that it is difficult for them to schedule and travel to take the test. If a student from my school is borderline I can fail them knowing that they can easily come in the next day to retest.
(This was not meant as an advertisement… just trying to illustrate that all schools are NOT the same.)
-Chris
Carlton says
Chris;
I’m a little concerned that the subjective difficulty of your testing might be influenced by the convenience of scheduling and traveling to be tested. These students want are trying to be truck drivers, putting in around 500 miles per day (if they plan to make money at it), so the inconvenience of a commute really should not be a serious concern. As for scheduling; if you aren’t sure that you (or your student) will pass the test – if you (or they) aren’t confident in their skills – then perhaps scheduling to test is premature. Don’t schedule to take the test until you (and the student) *know* that they will pass. This will make them better drivers when they go out on the road, and it will prevent scheduling or commuting to the test from being a serious inconvenience.
I’m a trainer at a trucking company, myself – one of the ‘paper mills’ – and about 20% of the student that come to me, wind up having accidents before I can teach them to actually drive the truck. They’re being handed to me with shiny new licenses, a dream, and no ability to shift or keep track of their trailer tandems – and one of these problems usually sufficiently distracts them from the other, to cause an accident. Some don’t even have the language skills required under the FMCSR to be qualified to drive commercially, mush less receive instruction.
I understand that it is difficult to be thorough, particularly within the budget of an out-of-work person that is aspiring to the relatively low achievement of commercial truck driving – but please try harder. Your family is out on the road with your graduates.
Carlton
robert says
What they are doing now is like you are putting the wolf to take care of the sheeps. Do we need any other proof is just about the greed and money and has nothing to do with safety???????????????????
Michael says
I went to a CDL School that tested us. The one who trained me was not the one who tested me. It was no slacker school. You were graded according to how you drove, backed and other areas and were given a grade based on that. Before testing if your grade wasn’t to their standards, you failed and could not test for your CDL. One thing I will say is that schools can’t teach every scenario a driver will face on the road or can’t teach every backing manuver it will take to back in certain areas. I have been on the road over 2 years and have a perfect safety record. I haven’t been anywhere yet that I could not back into or get out of. I have several friends who went to similar schools who have perfect safety records also. So to say get off the road because we were tested at the same school we attended, well check our records before you classify us all in the same category.
Big Montana says
That I know of swift and central refrigerated have been doing this for at LEAST 6 years, at the joke of a school for swift in Lewiston, ID, the on road instructors rotated with all students and two of them were state CDL testers, so I took my CDL test from someone who had been instructing me. So this is nothing new.
And the school at Lewiston 6 years ago was HORRIBLE. A rancher friend sat me in the seat and taught me better in one afternoon. I litterally couldn’t get help two times when I asked for it multiple times, it seemed to me mostly because it was either too hot for the instructors to come out of the shade, or because I didn’t have a set of tits.
Carol says
I attended one of those truck driving schools. After being tested by the school, we were all fully aware that we each had the potential to be picked for the “lottery.” The lottery is where the local DMV office would pick 3 students from each class for each of 3 tests: Pre-trip, Road test, and Backing skills. The school had no idea who was going to be picked for these tests and had to teach everyone the same and could not just pass everyone. Their credibility as testers was on the line. I am happy to say that we did not know until about 3 hours before the test who was going to be picked and all 3 of us passed the first time. I have been out on the road for about 3 months and still have a clean CSA after being picked for the road test in the lottery. Then again, I also have held a Class B since 1999 and had a clean CSA before I embarked on this journey.
I just wanted to point out that not all of the schools are farming out as many graduates as they can for the money.
Bob S says
I have been driving for over 20 years. Logged well into my second million miles. Up till the last 5 years. I had never seen a driver,,,,,back up along side of the interstate to go in a scale,because he was not smart enough to see it open.? Or see a driver stuck in the median of the interstate trying to make a U turn. Both on I 40. I have seen more fenders smashed, headlights tore out even fuel pumps tore out of the ground .All in TRUCK STOPS. No not by a RV driver. But by a TRUCK DRIVER. That is not qualified to wear shoes .Let alone drive a commercial rig. Seems funny to me. The government continues to raise the stakes in the industry. Then lowers the standards. Looks like another turn to break the back of this country.
Jon says
Throwing the flag on this comment. I have been seeing this happen for over 20 years on a regular basis not just in the last 5 years. I think the new HOS rules and drivers having to push so hard to “beat the clock” has as much to do with accidents especially in truck stops as anything. I have not noticed an increase myself. You might just be noticing them more.
Steph says
I work at a CDL in Ontario, Canada. Not a single truck training school in my area (Ottawa) has the authority to test students to get their licence. We have all heard about those “fly-by-night” schools in the Toronto area cranking out licences for $2500 or so. It is a scam. It drags the industry down.
Impartial, third-party testing is critical in keeping Consistency in licenced drivers AND Honesty in the training schools.
All truck training schools need to work together as an organized association rather than private businesses so that those scammer schools get pushed out and truck training can be affordable to everyone that needs it at a reputable school run by the province or state. Not a business.
I hate that as someone who is trying to run a respectable truck training school, I can’t even approach another school on their methods. They’d laugh at me in my face and slam the door. If we weren’t all private businesses we wouldn’t be dogs fighting over the same bone. Schools wouldn’t be lowering the prices and training time just to attract lower-income students (especially ill-informed new immigrants). These people deserve (and need) high quality training like everyone else.
IMHO
Mike Harley says
I don’t know about all the schools but the one I attended was a 6 month program and we got all the training we needed. We I went to orientation I was a couple steps ahead if the others that went to the 4-8 week schools. My school was in Pa and my examiners were state certified they went through the same training as the examiners that work directly for penndot. They did not pass everyone either if you couldn’t drive safely you failed they would give u 3 separate chances and if u failed the 3rd time u had a choice of doing 2 more weeks of training or downgrading to a B class with passenger endorsement. Now I know there are some schools that just pass you even if you can’t drive but not all of them are like this. They need to weed out those get your license fast schools.
Jon says
that’s comforting. If you failed your CDL A test after 3 attempts you were approved to haul people around. A list of Passenger Companies that hire failed CDL test takers would be nice so I can avoid them.
Anthony Cramer says
It’s not a new law or anything it’s been that way for years. Thats how all the schools do it. It’s almost impossible to fail. Infact they won’t let u fail. It’s nothing new. same ole garb.
BigBadBill says
This is a non-issue. This has been happening in most states for a while and the non-trucking company schools turn out the best trained students. I think the bigger issue is company training. These are the schools with the issue.
Samuel Barradas says
I disagree. It’s been happening at some schools that are granted exceptions to the current laws, the new law would widely increase the number of schools that do their own testing. I’m not saying all the schools that do their own testing are turning out poorly trained students, but the new laws will give a lot more bad schools the ability to churn out a lot more poorly trained students.
Steph says
We are the owners of a reputable in CA. I guess some of you call us “paper mills”. We work hard to prepare the students so that they are ready for the DMV. We do not just send them to get them done. We are having major issues with the DMV. We cannot get appointments for our students within 45 days and sometimes the wait is longer. It is unfair when nerves get the best of them and now have to wait another 45 days to get their license. Please don’t label all schools as scams. We care about our students and their lives. We work hard at licensing and job placement. If this were to happen in CA, it would solve so many problems. It is not fair to crucify the schools that follow the rules and do things right.
I agree with “Chris”. If there is anyone that can come up with a better solution, we are open to it. We work hard to get our students placed in the RIGHT job. The inefficiency of the appointment system at DMV is preventing our students from going to work. This hurts our economy and the morale of the student. Some students are paid for by the State or the VA, and they cannot go to work until the appointment comes. The trucking companies who hire our students are equally frustrated because they are waiting to put people to work. In this economy, how sad is that, our own government prevents people from going to work.
Media works hard to make truck drivers the route of all evil when it comes to accidents on the road. There are many good quality and reputable truck schools that understand that SAFETY of everyone on the road is the priority concern and we will not allow anyone to even test if there is a concern. I hope that this will happen in CA soon.
larry Giglio says
hello. a better solution may be called a “learner’s permit”, whereby restrictions do not allow the new CDL holder to drive unaccompanied (solo) for the first year on the road.
Jon says
Never going to happen. You are proposing doubling the cost of delivering freight to the carrier. No carrier can afford to do this with the rates being paid to haul that freight unless you are saying that the government should subsidize the trucking companies to do this. You are not suggesting even more government regulation in companies are you?
Lee.B says
Your school sounds like what I have been looking for.Could I get contact Info Thanks,Lee
John says
This has been going on for years. Mike Millis is or was the presedent of MTI (millis traning institute) has been certifying student drivers for at least 12 years in Wisconsin. I was a driver traner and thought it was a conflict of intrest at the time.
ed gongre says
Ive been a cdl driver since 1977 ,No moving violations or fault accident ever.Im recently retired.Back then in my home state of Louisiana ,they would issue a CDL (chauffeurs) )license to anyone that could pass the written test .There weren’t any actual skill tests . I got my experience as did many others back then ,thru the school of Hard Knocks and B-tt Chewings on farm, logging and other off road situations which IMO taught me more than any schools could or will do.NO school can l teach anyone what to do or not to do every real world situation that the road can bring.That only comes in time spent behind the wheel and learning from mistakes a driver is sure to make along the way .We all pray they are in some way non accidental.I dont blame the schools but do think they all need to be regulated by ICC or state DMV and their student’s graduated , have their driving records reviewed during a set probationary period after being hired by a company .This would apply to all new CDL lisenses issued and the companies or their insurers must submit upon new hires. But that will never happen as it would create a little more effort and time on everyone involved and thats too much to ask just to save a few thousand accidents and possibly many lives too.I dont blame all the training schools only those who grab the students or government grant’s money rush them thru the basics and send them off to a waiting Trucking company. Only to put them in the cab with a trainer ,who for the most part may only have a year or two on the road himself and has little choice in being a trainer.I know i wouldnt want the job and commend most of these people on their bravery or lack of sense ,Im not sure .I blame the big companies and their hiring practices more than the schools themselves . They’d rather hire a rookie driver over an older experienced one on many occasions and I can onlywhy as Ive bever been behind doors of a boardroom in the corporate offices or wanted to be a part of anything corporate in trucking. for that matter.But IMO it is that an older experienced driver can think a little for himself (company views as set in his ways ) and is a little harder to reverse mold into someone who’ll do the senseless stuff they expect from these new drivers who so often become an indentured slave spending thrir lives out there running their butts off if they last that long and with little if anything to show from it.They promise this and that or what”drive for us”decal you read on the back of their trailers . Even some others end up with zero and owing the company money after they fall into the buy your own truck from us crap then for whatever reason a driver and dispatcher have a difference of opinion or the driver was to voice an opinion at all. I retired due to seizures and having to surrender my CDL and all driving privileges with a spotless record.I haven’t a clue the miles accumulated over 35 years off and on of being a so called professional driver Ive accumulated.And that is what you are considered whether your 1st day on the job or an old fart like me “a professional”.Too bad some of us dont always act like one..Driving used to be a job I did because I enjoyed it and the pay was secondary.But little by little the changing times along with what I just mentioned and the regulations being imposed or enforced however you want to look at it, has sucked the life out of it for me .They took the enjoyment and the pride in my work away and Im glad its over for me.Whether new or old,I’ll never lose the respect for the driver,and we were all new at one time.. My sincere thanks to all drivers.and pray that you all be as safe as the car or truck next to you will allow.
Tanya Bons says
I’m the director of a truck driving school in Illinois. We are Secretary of State certified which means that an examiner from the state comes out and tests our students. Some days everyone passes, some days only one or two. There are days we complain about the examiners, especially since some of the testing is subjective. We have had students fail for less than an inch and that inch was based from the bumper down using a clipboard as a plumb bob. Regardless, when my students pass there is a feeling of euphoria.
I know for a fact that holding a student back that isn’t ready to test is costly. On occasion we have held students back weeks before they were even allowed to test, all the profit is long gone and it costs us money, sometimes lots. Our graduation rate is 100% and it’s because we hold onto our students until they’re ready.
I honestly believe that schools that self test, even the ones that care about what they put out on the road, will have a tendency to pass more often then fail.
The pressure of testing can choke a great driver but I would rather see my driver choke on test day then out on the road during an emergency. Learning to overcome their anxiety and pass on test day is a measurement of the kind of driver they are going to be. If we coddle them and take away the fear of testing aren’t we in essence sending them out unprepared?
Schools testing themselves is not a good practice; an example would be the state of Tennessee revoking over 8,000 Swift endorsed CDLs. It is of course preposterous to think that all of these drivers were incapable of passing the test but the question would be WHICH drivers should not have been licensed? – that question could not be answered without re-testing all of them.
If third party testers are used they should in no way be affiliated with the school.
Drive safe,
Tanya
Jarl Knag says
I have driven truck/bus for over 20 years. After having been away from the trucking industry for a little over a decade, I decided to go back to driving a truck.
I went to the MVD (DMV) here in Arizona to get some info and pointers of the best way of getting back on the road. They suggested I go to a CDL driving school to get a “refreshment” course, and take the test for my Arizona CDL.
I did this, and with my fresh CDL, went on to find a job. After all, the industry was screaming for drivers, wasn’t it?
I went to Swift to do a road test, spent a whole day, just to find out that Swift is NOT really looking for drivers. Their main objective is apparently to sell schooling.
On the way over the parking lot to do the road test, I was asked where I got my AZ CDL, and when I told the instructor that I have driven for 20+ years, so I just got a “refresher” and took the test on this Driving School, he refused to even let me take the road test!
I would understand it if this School would have been a shady place, but this School was Highly Recommended by the CDL office of the MVD!
The Swift guy said that They (Swift) don’t approve of the drivers licence from this school. (Competition, anyone?). Remember; a School Highly recommended by the MVD!
Than they told me that they still would like to employ me, but only if I take their “School”, and by the way that’ll cost you $ 4000.-. For a drivers licence I already have!
I have found the same problem all over. The trucking industry seem to have gone over to the “schooling” business as their principal means of revenue. They are obviously not interested in experienced drivers anymore!
I guess it should raised a red flag when I saw all this trucking companies “hiring” drivers in droves, during the last couple of years when all industry, manufacturing and more and more stores and malls were shutting down! What were they “transporting”?. They were not, they were “schooling”!!
Jon says
The trucking industry hires on presumed need not on actual need. They try and forecast what the economy and freight volume is going to be doing in a year or so and hire now to try and have enough drivers to meet that expected uptick in volume. It’s a tough position for the industry. If they hire enough drivers now to meet future demand so the drivers can get experience they have a bunch of them hanging around getting 1200 miles a week. If they wait until the uptick then they can’t go after the freight as they don’t have the drivers and trucks to get it and will get beat out on contracts by other carriers that can fill that void instantly.
overworked / underpaid says
good luck with this idea ! when I got my Class A cdl I had to go through a 14 to 16 week training including a defensive driving course and I was still a green horn for a few years after that . Giving a driver a cdl at the school is like giving a kid a Harley Davidson to drive to elementary school . Im not all for the gov running our lives but when this stupid stuff happens you understand why the gov takes over !
Jay says
The problem with this article is that it assumes that these ‘new’ (actually not new it’s been going on for quite awhile as several other comments have indicated) rules will reduce the training to a “bare minimum”.
Nothing will be reduced. The training is already at a bare minimum. First off, unless you enroll in a very expensive and long course (270+ hours) offered by some schools you are already getting the bare minimum. A typical 160 hour course will teach you how to pass the written test by giving you a slew of practice tests that simply teaches you to memorize the correct answers. You’ll learn pre-trip and air brakes the same way. Memorize the script. And you’ll practice backing on the range until you can pass the skills test. You’ll drive on the road in the same very low traffic areas over and over. Often on the exact route you’ll be taken on the DMV test. It’s quite possible you’ll complete the entire curriculum pulling an unloaded ‘pup’ trailer.
You’ll graduate never having pulled an actual load. Never having pulled a 53′ trailer. Never having bumped an actual dock or parked between two trailers (not cones or painted lines). Possibly never having driven up or down a grade. And possibly never having driven in congested traffic.
Again, the bare minimum is already the industry standard. How do these rules make that any different?
Samuel Barradas says
I think we have different definitions of “bare minimum” training. If you read the comments in this thread or some of the thousands on the TruckersReport forum, you’ll see that a “bare minimum” 160 hour course is a lot more training than many students are getting. The new rules will have the effect of creating even more new drivers that don’t meet your definition of bare minimum.
road devil says
In colorado I was tested by my school, I don’t recall an actusl writen except for the instruction permit, but they are really strict and have quality testing (where the state pulls a graduate and tests them themselves) this is over a year ago btw and they would even send people as under cover testers to intentionally perform actions to fail the test and if passed the tester could face fraud charges so I don’t see the problem if it is properly regulated
Rickey Gooch says
It is the drivers that are the most important asset of trucking today. This is just another attempt by Ray LaHood to tap into a new income source from trucking school lobbyist! He has pushed intermodal traffic to a new all time record with his introduction of CSA. Ray LaHood has said that he would like to see OTR trucking reduced by 50% OR MORE!
The man has done nothing but push new truck purchases, EOBR’s and new trailer purchases. He has caused insurance rates to rise, lawsuits to swell to the point that insurance companies are dropping trucking coverage all together.
Ray LaHood intends to kill all the small carriers but leave nothing for the big carriers. What kind of fools does he think the people of this industry are? Also at what point will carriers and drivers say enough is enough?
Rickey Gooch
Justice for Truckers
speed says
I agree with your statement about swift training and testing
And others a like. However the feds have decided to pass
A law that says if you are a school that trains you can no longer do
The testing.you can only do one or the other.
Also i work at a cdl school and its pass or fail. And not to
Mention D.O.T also does random undercover opps in the
School to make sure their doing the job right. Not sure where
You got your facts reguarding them being cdl mills.
Jon says
I don’t know what the screaming headline and commotion is about this issue. Over 20yrs ago I was not only trained by Swift in their driving school in Phoenix but given a road test by them and a job when I passed. It has been happening for years. Must be a slow news day.
Samuel Barradas says
Sounds like you received good training. Not all students do, and the new rules will increase the number of drivers who join the industry unprepared to drive a truck.
sam says
I’ve never really seen a qualified driver come out of any of the schools. Honestly.
Too little road time…………period.
The guys/gals can spout book rules like a fire hydrant, but they can’t drive.
The schools are a travesty.
Jon says
I will say this about the Swift at that time. My trainer at the company had been in the seat for over 30yrs and I was not aware of any trainer that had “6 months of experience”. Several companies tried out putting 2 new drivers together as a team but I think that does not happen anymore. I never thought it was a good idea to begin with. What are 2 drivers with no real world experience going to teach each other?
Ed says
Just to clarify…this isn’t a “new” law. There is a provision in the new permit rules that would take away the ability for schools to test thier own students, unless they are farther than 50 miles from a state testing center. We are still in the compliance window for states to implement the new rules. What has happened is that state governments, trucking trade organizations, and groups that represent schools have lobbied the FMCSA to rescind some of the provisions of the new rules, 3rd party testing being one of them. So in reality this isn’t a “new” law. It is simply a revision of a new law that hasn’t even been implemented. It is currently up to the states to decide if they will allow 3rd party testing and to what extent. Some states allow it and some do not. Keep in mind that there is an enormous cost to providing CDL testing services….we aren’t just talking about OTR truck drivers. What about all of the bus drivers for all of the school systems? City buses? Drivers at state and local utility companies? Tech Colleges? Large companies that have their own training programs (UPS for example)? This is a complex issue and it is extremely expensive to change. The Feds can pass a new law but they do not provide any money to the States to implement the new laws.
Ahmad says
I believe this is good its like any other school why not trucking schools, the point of money being payed to school amend a law to it not to give money for schools to hire their students. and how about other states like pa ny ma they have very hard and long schooling I heard up to 6 months with all kind of driving tricks. and I do not like computers because you have to take certification test I heard every 3 years like comptia or cisco certifications
MIKE says
When I went to school you could graduate and not have a cdl. There was an instructor that was certified to do the test but he would not pass you just to make the numbers look better for the school. I saw proof of that by him failing one of my classmates until he could pass the test with an acceptable score.
bbq Dave says
Well here’s one for the books. The sum total of my training consisted of sitting at my neighbor,s kitchen table (because he used to own a truck) didn’t anymore and him explaining where things were and what they did , how to shift ECT. ECT. Must have taken all of an hour to go over everything. Then since I still had no real experience except driving a Pepsi route truck around the country roads in Wisconsin for six month, my neighbor “Who used to own a truck” says just put down that you drove for me for 3 months. That way they won’t expect you to know much. Oh by the way I had to get my class A license first. So off to DMV take the written test, passed with 100% cuz I could read and understand what I read. Drive test was done in my pickup with a trailer attached. COOL HUH O.k. back to the storey…I go from place to place putting in applications without much luck. Finally I go to this Potato Farmer (His name C.H.Leggmen) He talks with me for a bit, points to a truck and trailer out in the yard and says to back it in the potato shed over there. I did and he said o.k. come on in Sunday night you can follow Les to Chicago ‘s South Water Produce Market with Spuds. I gotta tell you every curve I went around I thought that 1962 GMC saltine box with windows and a 671 Jimmy for an engine was going to fall over. But Les was ahead of me and didn’t run off and leave me, so I made it wide eyed and white knuckled. That was 42 years accident free years ago. I have driven for (You old farts will know these names) the likes of R.A.Yancy, Fat Equipment Leasing. Patio Farm Lines and BHY Trucking. The left lane was called THE MONFORT LANE!!!! To this day I am still learning even after 5 + million miles. I plan on buying an RV soon and getting out to see all the places of which the signs says were 18 miles this way or 40 miles that way, I couldn’t because I had to make Market or get that drill pipe there. So all you Young Pups out there be careful ask questions (when you do don’t be afraid to ask how long that person has been behind the wheel) AND most of all have Respect for Yourself and How You Want People to Percive You. OH YEAH One last thing DON’T run my ass over. God Bless You All and Keep The Shinny Side Up.
LONG TIME GONE says
It’s called a CDL mill, they pump out as many new drivers as they can to keep up with the demand to move freight. Then they run their drivers like dogs and replace them with new student drivers when the fed up dogs quit… and the safety dept wonders why we have so many accidents… what the hell was I thinkin’ when I decided to drive trucks…
Outlaw says
I attended Mid-Fla Tech in Orlando Fl for eight weeks which was stretched to 12 when I failed the first four weeks . I had to attend a JB Hunt school in Louisiana when I didn’t start driving right after graduation. I was a better driver than my trainer when I first started driving. Mid-Fla Tech , a state sponsored school, did a very good job of taking an inexperienced driver and turning him into a trucker. I was already experienced when I attended the JB Hunt school but that combined with driving a flat bed for the first year combined to make me a very safe driver but in reality it takes about 3 years to become a truck driver. To give a person a Class A CDL after attending a “diploma mill” is an absolute crime and sets them up to fail. DOT should investigate the history of every trucker involved in an accident because usually the failure can be traced back to the school and it’s training methods. I was trained to be a “runner” and even though i’m off the road I have no respect for the so-called “driving schools” which rob the industry of potentially good drivers.
Jude says
I’ve been on the road for 16 months. I believe I had 2 great instructors who truly took their job seriously. I attended two different CA truck schools, reason being that I wanted a more one on one instruction. After getting 1-on-1 at the 2nd school, passing the skills test, I went back to the first. I had only about 4 hours total training on the streets, with only 10 minutes of it on the highway. Passed the Over the Road test though. I got my license and my husband (4 years on the road, at the time I started) continued my training while we earned our paycheck.
It scares me how many other non-experienced truck drivers will be put out on the roads without much training or hours. I was blessed to have my husband show me the ropes. Also, I was more cautious knowing that I knew nothing about truck driving.
What a mess this will be…
Hollywood Tom says
This is no different than any other FMCSA decision it’s all about money not safety. Face it, these companies make millions of dollars in government payed tuition that’s all they care about is the bottom line. If safety was a priority no one with less that 10 years experience would be allowed to train.
james says
I went school in the army then went to school for 8 weeks the state road tested me and that was in 87 went back to school in 95 and the state gave. Me the road test again and if you bumbed a curb you failed
penny burch says
Could someone please help me in Tennessee. I have a class b permit with air brakes and tankers. I am looking for someone state certified to test me with the pre trip and road skills.I don’t have a truck to take this in so looking for someone who has the trucks at testing . I have been at my company for 16 yrs so I’m not looking for a job . Only need this because I can cross the rail road tracks in a water truck . Please any help of finding someone in Tennessee would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Robert says
I recall MTA Truck Driver training in Laredo Texas. I paid$ 3. 400.
For the school starting Jan 29 – March . Backing Parking
Pre trip. and Then on the city streets’ Laredo Texas.
Three of us in a 1996 WHITE /GMC Sleeper. nine speed.( White Cab)
Final pretest Zapata Texas. on highway 83. The state tester was a nice
But very well set on how’ you drove Shifting Turning Stopping
Safe even speed’ and returning to The Dept Of Public Safety Office.
The MTA Truck School students will recall this way of testing.
She was fair! and would reset’ a test for low score students’..
MTA Closed the Laredo Texas School In March 2002.
Steve Mario Padia Sonny. Were Good People..