Just a few weeks ago, a federal court shut down the Owner Operator Independent Drivers Association’s case against mandatory Electronic Logging Devices (ELDs). True to their word however, OOIDA isn’t done yet. They have just requested a rehearing on their case against the mandate that they once called “absolutely the most outrageous intrusion into the rights of professional truckers imaginable.”
Since this is not the first time the DOT has tried to implement mandatory logging devices in all commercial trucks, this is not the first time OOIDA has fought back against them. In fact, OOIDA has won multiple cases against ELDs, Electronic On-Board Recorders, and E-logs by using largely the same argument – which may be why they’re a bit confused that it didn’t work this time.
“The issues we raised are really important issues,” said OOIDA Executive Vice President Todd Spencer. “It seemed like they dismissed the same issues the judges took pretty seriously just five years ago.”
According to OOIDA, it may not be the argument that’s the problem, but the judges themselves. Only three randomly selected judges out of the 13 in the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals heard the case this time. By asking for a rehearing, OOIDA would require all 13 judges to take part.
“It may have just been that the luck of the draw was not on our side,” said Spencer.
You can read more of our coverage on the proposed ELD rule here, here, and here, but the argument against it boils down to four major things: The rule violates trucker’s constitutional rights, it leaves drivers vulnerable to harassment, implementation would be prohibitively expensive for small carriers, and ELDs have not been proven to make drivers any safer than paper logs.
When OOIDA first filed their lawsuit against the current iteration of the ELD rule, OOIDA president and CEO Jim Johnston promised to fight the new regulation “with everything we have.” It appears OOIDA plans to do just that.
Source: overdrive, truckersreport, truckersreport
Thomas Stoddard says
Me as a single truck owner, will not be able to afford the ELD. Also, with the ELD, the driver is rushing to get everything done in the alloted 14 hours in a day, therefore speeding to get to a destination or a stop to take his/her mandated 10 hour break. If a driver was to rest for 2 to 3 hours during his day, and not have to stay awake for 14 hours, would be safer for everyone. Personally, I think everyone with 5 years or less, should run ELD. after the 5 year mark, it should be up to A: the company and B: the driver.
Money says
It doesn’t take five years to learn how to properly operate a combination.
William says
I do believe it’s time that OOIDA and its membership “grow up”
From the statements they make, they are just sore losers. They are wasting time,money and the courts time. All the issues they brought to court have been addressed and taken care of. If drivers themselves had not proven time after time that they cannot be trusted with a paper log. Drivers under pressure do often crack and falsify the paper log where the eld records everything leaving the driver without the cheating option !
Emmerson Cabell says
No, they need 2 keep fighting. U c these guys racing that clock all the time; like speeding through construction zones. There r 2 many things we don’t have control of out here and these e-logs can easily take away a load a wk. May not sound like much but in today’s market that can really hurt u and eventually closed ur business. If company drivers like it and want 2 stay on them then go 4 it but I don’t think small, 1 truck operations like mine should b forced 2 cover the cost and burden of them
Kevin says
So me being a one man operation, are you going to pay for the equipment for me and then pay the monthly cost to have it? In 17 years I have been driving, I have had one log violation and that was a simple error on my part. I started my day one hour too soon and I was stopped within 10 miles of staring my day. Other than that, I have had dozens of inspections and not one single log book issue, not one single accident, or so much as an incident. No speeding tickets, nothing. So where is the safety factor? And again, if you think we should just give up and accept it, who is going to pay for it for me? Cause I’m sure as heck not going too.
Jason Kane says
Well said, Kevin. Unfortunately, the few always ruin it for the many. As far as the government is concerned, it doesn’t matter if there’s a million perfectly legal and safe drivers out there. The way they see it is if just one out of that million lies on a logbook or does something stupid that causes an accident, we must all be out here doing it too. It’s absurd.
I have been from paper to elogs, back to paper, and back to elogs again. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. I’m also a company driver for a fleet of about 80 trucks, so I can’t relate on the cost issue but I certainly understand your concern.
I do believe elogs should be left to the discretion of the company/owner, and I hope the ruling works in your favor when it’s all said and done.
Ron says
I agree Jason that the decision should be that of the owner and theirs alone.
Kevin says
Also, the eld does not record everything. Only when the truck moves. It doesn’t know if you just slept 2 hours or 8 hours of your 10 hour break, it doesn’t know that you were inside assisting with an unload while you put your eld on line 2 in the sleeper. The only thing it know is if your truck is moving or not.
Fuckelog says
I hope you enjoy working for jbhunt or swift. It is about corporation, cause elog megacorp lazy drivers cant deliver shit. They need to hire teams in order to do that. I drive my 700 miles a day no matter what, cause i am a responsible man and deliver my loads on time.
Jon says
Come on, GET REAL! OTR drivers are mostly paid by the mile, THERE is your incentive to cheat! That hasn’t changed since to 1930’s. Pay them a daily rate while under load & they have no need to endanger everyone on the road. 2) any small carrier with just 1 trailer per truck cannot compete with the big companies that have 3 trailers for every truck & do drop & hook, another huge incentive to cheat, not to mention the cost of the ELD’s for a small carrier. 3) The ELD mandate goes hand in hand with FMCSA 2010:
Kills the small carrier, & creates high turnover among drivers….it’s NOT a safety law! Training does NOT replace experience & drivers in training r just even cheaper labor. Payroll is a company’s biggest expense, this way they only pay an entry level wage. crashed trucks & trailers r deducted as a business expense. All this is prep for driverless trucks.
Gary says
“Grow Up!” That is one of the stupidest responses I’ve ever seen. Why should companies be mandated to purchase a good or service from a private business and have a reoccurring annual cost on a service when government has not proved that they are any more beneficial than paper logs. It’s the illusion of compliance. This is a “one size fits all” argument from the ATA that was intended to slow their astronomical turnover rate. Funny that ELD’s hasn’t done anything to improve their safety ratings since 70 percent of truck related accidents are not the drivers fault and over 80 percent of those trucks were using ELD’s.
Larry D Smith says
Grow up??
Look at how many truck accidents out there are trucks with the ELD. What needs to happen is that these large companies, and you problem work for one of them, hires people who has no business driving a truck. Many times I wonder how a person got hit or her licence when you watch them try again and again to get backed into a parking space.
What the industry needs is a crackdown on the personal driving the equipment and ensure they know what they’re doing.
ELD’S are good for those too stupid to do paper logs.
Scott says
Your argument is pure BSC
I have been doing this job for 60 years, yes 60 years, started in June 1956, and so far have never had a chargeable accident. Not because of ICC or dot regulations, but in spite of them.
Rufus Crank says
I do not consider taking a needed nap cheating. Nor do I believe throwing my truck into rush hour traffic safe. If you were a “Professional” driver, you would be saying that you should make the safety decisions concerning your operation, not an electronic device.
George says
Amen brother
Dan says
Let’s do this for ALL vehicles, cars, pick up trucks, everything. And of course with this they will follow with the implementation of tax per mile. And it won’t stop there. Soon they will totally control every single solitary thing you do, when, where, how, and why. According to THEIR dictates, of course.
1DEVILDAWG says
yes they can cheat with the e-logs & they do
Earl Putnal says
I didn’t become an OOIDA member. To pay someone not to fight for my rights. As well as have Congress take away my rights. Without anyone being there to help me. And it’s not being a sore loser. You’re insult to OOIDA. Means you don’t deserve your rights.
J Brown says
I think it’s about time to lobby for new rules
Tim says
You and I both know this (thankfully it isn’t just me), but as the vast majority of comments on pretty much every story about this topic always reveal, most drivers seem oblivious to it.
Because blind submission to authority ain’t my bag, I have to cringe whenever I read a comment that refers to log falsification as if it’s one of the seven deadly sins. People who say this either have no clue how flawed the HOS regs are, and/or how unqualified the people who wrote them likely are, or they simply can’t accept that situations do exist where breaking some law is the right thing to do.
Look, we all know the primary driver behind OOIDA’s justifiably aggressive stance on this issue is the lessened ability to falsify e-logs compared to paper. I have no quibble at all with that motivation by the way—in fact I strongly support it.
But of course, they can’t say that—obviously no argument that rests on breaking a law as justification, could ever win in any court of law. Instead, they fall into the trap of beating around the bush.
This article points out that they evidently were lulled into taking this approach by some past victories; how they EVER won with it is a mystery to me though.
What OOIDA could say, but continues to refuse to—at its own peril—is what J Brown just said above.
OneTruckOO says
Does anyone know a website, if there is one, where I can donate to the OOIDA???
Keiler says
Yes. Google them, they have their own website.
Marie Ewan says
When the pilot company, as well as the one day wonder CDL holders have some of the worst safety ratings in the history of the industry using the ELD’s. Why would anyone support them?
Big companies use those darn things to push drivers when they are tired, to drive because they have hours.
Granted the people of my generation did misuse the paper log so this is where we are at. There has got to be a better solution.
Taylor says
As soon it can be explained adequately why elogs has done nothing to help with the continual rash of accidents at places like Swift, England, etc, then we can talk further on this.
I have been out here for 29 yrs, and my logs have yet to be an issue in an inspection or during a review.
Adrian Alberino says
The main problem remains. .too much regulation on us and not on shippers and receivers. And from here we can go on from hours.
Rob Nice says
E-logs r not safer ur always fighting the clock. Drivers with E-logs r flat on the floor in construction zones they take their 30 minute break on the fuel island witch is causing fights and is gonna cause someone to get killed. So tell me again how safe e-logs r
Don says
Don
Johnny Sponar says
Good for them, hope they get it overturned again. My time in this industry depends on it, I will NEVER be forced to run an e-log. I’m one of the very few that has the spine to say “enough!” and walk…
Irvin Z says
You are not alone, I already WALKED and said ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Be safe out there.
brett williams says
johnny you are not alone. i walk also.
George says
I love this guy .time to strike
Don says
I think they should scrap all this nonsense they started years ago with hours of service and go back to 70hrs in 8 days. With the exception of having the 34hour restart. There so called safety reasons are just causing less safety and causing problems for parking since everyone starts there 14 hour day at 4,5, or 6 in the morning. Come up with a more intelligent remark for your disagreement OK William!!!
R C Clyde Jones says
Here Here!
Ron says
Yeah I do miss that 70 hr rule. They brole it by trying to fix it! Smh
Big Red says
I personally believe elogs will be the most dangerous regulation ever introduced to the trucking industry. Do we really want drivers racing the clock. From my experience, half the wrecks I see on the highway involving trucks have a FedEx truck in the lead. They are always racing the clock. No matter the conditions,( heavy traffic, rain, poor visibility), they’re always in the hammer lane. I guess the feds in their infinite wisdom (sarcasm intended) think having every truck on the road racing the clock is a good idea. I think OOIDA should stress in their argument to the courts the cost/benefit analysis. New regulations must pass a cost/benefit analysis test and I don’t believe the eld mandate will hold up under that requirement. Let’s hope our new president can roll back some of the over regulation that has affected our industry. We all need a break. My truck is not a rolling atm.
trey says
they both have pros and cons. but if company wants it fine but independent contractor SHOULD HAVE THE OPTION TO CHOSE.
Jerre says
I read and here all the comments that everyone talks about except for one.How does the government get off on telling us that we have to work constantly for 14 hours and how is that safer than back when we could pull over in the middle of the day and take a nap for a couple hours and then get up and drive again.I believe they should have left the old hours of service alone outside of giving us a 34 hour restart.To me it seemed more safe than forcing you to work.
Redjeb says
Nothing wrong with elds it is the 14 hour clock that is going to make elds dangrous. Many injurys and deaths to come.
Charles Ball says
So, if ELDs are an intrusion into a driver’s privacy, then going by the OOIDA’s logic, paper logs should be an invasion of driver’s rights too.
Willis Cooper says
I will be joining
will says
Edls are not uncorruptable, you can work around them and if you know what your doing make your 11 hr drive into a 12 or 13 hr drive depending on the system. It depends on if the company using them, how strict the are interpreting the rules ,
Rufus Crank says
Pull your ecm fuse. Wont tell truck it is moving. Worked on the prostar i was in.
wayne dearman says
Yuuup,i dont play the bull,i straight up log off n use paper,aint been fired yet n could careless if i do,I’m one of the hands that has backbone an other jobs to fall back on
Steven says
I’ve been driving for over twenty years and thought it was the best job in the world until the effin government tried to ruin it.
fred strehlow says
A driver made a very astute comment about the 14 hour rule. The truckstops used to have restaurants in most of them but now it’s just fast food junk. Says a lot.
old man says
If you think the 14 hour rule doesn’t chain you to the steering wheel, just look at all the truckstops that just have fast food now. It’s just go, go, go.
Michael Jordan says
We run team n drive on each other’s elog y cause of the stupid rules no time for breaks when the 8 hour mark hits we stop 30 seconds on side of road n switch drivers on e logs n keep driving on that drivers log
Barney Big Rig says
The problem with the transportation issue isn’t the controversy surrounding paper logs vs. e-logs!! It’s that drivers(company & O/OP) get paid by the mile which only benefits the carrier(large or small)!! If the drivers were legitimately paid by the hour you wouldn’t have speeding trucks & falsified logs because you would be getting paid for 14 hour days & time & half after 40-45 hour work weeks!! That would eliminate 70 hour work weeks entirely!! Why would you want to work almost twice the average work week getting paid by the mile for the same pay as someone working 40-45 hours per week by the hour?? The only ones that benefit from 70 hour work weeks paid by the mile are the carriers(greater profits) & the government(more taxes)!!
Short circuit says
I’ve been driving for 33 years never had a chargeable accident. I am a responsible adult I know when I’ve had my limit for the day and don’t need someone to tell me when to sleep and when not to When that day comes that I have to have a ELD IM DONE and there are many drivers that feel the same as I do
George says
I think first DOT must consider new hours of operation and then ELD mandate. If have never been behind the wheel for a while, How you gonna make the best for all drivers?
George says
It’s ok for drop off and hook up. For live loads is terrible, and when you are O/O with one trailer will be disaster for your incomes.
Randy says
Why aren’t they adding to the fight that small carriers like me who drive generally a 500 mile radius and have to load and unload 2 or 3 times a day cannot make a living.
All it takes and it happens all the time is for a shipper or reicever to hold you up 2 or 3 hours and your days shot.
Elds for us just won’t work. Or the fact like going thru a large city like Atlanta. There are times when I would like to stop and take a nap to let traffic situation get better. I can’t because the clock is still running. So this makes me drive when I’m tired and during peak traffic times. Both are unsafe.
The government thinks we all where a size 9 shoe. Every operation is different. From flatbeds to reefers to box trailers to log trucks.
Sure they could go back and make you file for an exemption but what a waste of time and money. If you are going to give exemptions don’t make the rule in the first place.
Dopes says
The elds are here to stay…. there’s not really a loss in income due to elds. When drivers start loosing money. It’s normally operational or company retaliation against the drivers. From what I have seen in the 5 years of being on elds. Drivers actually make more money with them. The problem is with elogs. It makes it too easy for a dispatcher to retaliate on a driver. And they are very protective of that easy to use feature. Once the elds are taken away from them. Then will the true asset of the elds be seen.
Sebastian Mujica says
Eld is not the real problem… the 70 hour rule is the main culprit of stressed out driving and the 14 a close second… rolling recaps and running out of 14 make me push the limit and drive when i would rather not
John Meyer says
Not sure how I will be able to take a nap just because a ELD tells me that I am tired. I have been driving for 30 years. When I’m tired I pull over and rest. Sometimes I feel great and can work 18 hours. Other days I don’t feel so good so I only do what I can. The ELD is gonna make my job suck. No more shooting the bull with friends. No more taking a long break when I want to take it. No more busting my ass to get home early. I’ll miss my grandkids’ games because a computer says that I have to take a break.
Rob says
I believe all the Megas are lobbying for this mandate to run all the Independents out of the industry because they know they can’t compete with the faster trucks. With the ELDs and driver facing cams it will pretty much be like modern day slavery if you work for carriers that use both, monitered 24/7, won’t be able to eat or drink or scratch your own ass when driving.
Jackal says
Time to drain the FMSCA swamp.
George says
Yes Rod ,the truckers become MODERN SLAVERY. I think they need more flexibility with their hours, they no need cameras they need more freedom when they are far away from home and family .PLEASE do not make them SLAVES. I do not understand how is this possible in 21st century. Doesn’t matter O/O or company driver we have to fight for our rights.
George says
Unfortunately nobody will read our posts and think about what normal truck drivers says .
TMR says
I think the people that want to make the rules for us should turn off their computer and drive a truck for a full year and get a grip on just what trucking is all about..
steven says
My solution is to put the work burden on the company not the driver. 12 on 12 off for EVERYTHING.
Every day every driver in America starts their day with same number of hours to work. So no HOS preventing a driver from taking a load due to 7 day recap. Driver can split as needed if they are not working more than 12 hours in the last 24. Example, 6 on ,6 off,6 on 6 off. Four on four off. Even 8 on 2 off4 on and 10 off.
That applies when under a load. When empty and ready for a load, the driver sends an “I’m awake and ready to roll.” Message and goes to a new line 5 called a “stand-by” line.
Say a drivers ready at 6a.m., however he is not given a load until noon that picks up at 1500 two hours away. His standby line says he was awake, alert and waiting for a load since 6a.m. He leaves at 1300, 7 hours later, he now has 5 hours on his 12 hour window at 1500. Goes off duty for 4 hours as shipper loads until 1700. Driver must either stop driving by 2200 and sleep until 6a.m. To get 12 hours, or count load time as on duty to 1700, park at safe area by 1800 and start at 0600 or 0500 if he didn’t use that last hour.
The stand by line prevents the stay awake all day to drive all night dispatching. The reason is one hour of alertness for driving is lost by one hour of waiting. Yes the driver can drive 11.75 in a day when he got loaded the day before, and it’s 84 hours a week, but there is no stupid recap. Also slow docks cost company money while preserving driver alertness in this system.
To speed up dock times pass a law that customers not the carriers are liable for the drivers detention pay at the rate of mileage pay times 60mph speed per hour after two hours of waiting from arrival after early side of appointment window.
Example, window is 0800-1800 driver arrives at 0900. Customer is responsible to pay driver starting at 11am and must pay driver before they are allowed to leave. Carrier is no longer liable for detention pay. This will force full load to be ready and loaded or unloaded before arrival or appointment to prevent paying drivers. Or, no one hauls their freight?.
18 yrs exp. Flatbed, reefer, and vans.