Full synthetic oil

Used Schaeffers here as well for the last several years. However when I asked an engine tech at Kenworth this afternoon about putting it in a CAT C12, he said I would be throwing my money away & just stick with Rotella that was in it.

Have read the data & know the cost differentials, just hate it when someone throws a wrench in what I had been thinking was correct.

 

I was involved with a small fleet that did the synthetic thing and within a very short time the engines were full of jelly and black as the ace of spades, when did bearing roll ins and when he came in for a meeting about his trucks I showed him bearing sets from 4 of his and 4 of other trucks that ran the Coquihalla and 97C hauling 140,000LBS. I asked him to pick out his, he got them all wrong. These units all had spinners and the filters were changed regularly, and sampling was done as recommended. We figured out the total costs of everything, and it was decided to drop the whole thing. It cost a lot more, he never found any fuel savings. At the next oil change we had them add a Gallon of ATF when they were at the yard and brought them into the shop and drained the oil and left them over night. It took two oil changes to clean them out. Just a thought!

 

I don' t know what brand of supposed synthetic you were using in this so called test , but it sounds like a load of dung to me. Synthetics have out preformed conventional oils for over 30 yrs. I began using them in 1988 and have had nothing but great results with any major brand. Have also heard great things about the Schaeffers. And I wouldn't put any stock in what 99% of the crap most so called tech{parts changers} had to say.

 

Yeah, the only possible downside to syn. I can see is absolute cost vs. realized benefit. Haven't heard of synthetic alone turning to jelly, but have only used it in one truck so my experience is limited.

 

They were developed for real to work in the space program in incredibly harsh environments. The thing I like is that they don't break down as soon because they are not petroleum based to start with. Act as carrier to get contaminants to filtering system. They are too expensive. I quit using Mobil after seeing their prices skyrocket after they got into various racing series so heavily. Don't need to pay extra to support some rich race car driver.

 

Synthetic oils are good. No dispute. But some are priced way out of line and make some pretty outrageous claims. I would consider suspect the results posted by JohnP3. That seems a little skewed somehow. I have used various brands of synthetics throughout the years in a wide variety of applications and have not experienced any negatives. From lawn mowers to personal vehicles to commercial trucks to ag tractors and equipment. Now it may be disputed that in any given situation, the cost benefit is not very good if at all. That is why I settled on a 40% synthetic blend made by Warren for a local oil supplier for my truck and farm tractor. Have gotten very good UOA's compared to the bigger name (and bigger priced) products, and the cost is lower than most of the big name brand conventional oils, even at Wally World pricing. It does pay to shop. Oil ads and brochures can be a little misleading. After having a chat with the VP of lubrication products at Allied Oil and Supply out of Omaha, I found out that the oil specs, such as CJ-4, do not allow for much tolerance in what is put in the bottle. The differences in oils are so minute that only hard core lab testing would show that much difference. And since most of the base oils and additive packages are made by the same small group of suppliers, the differences are almost nill. SAE requirements for a particular specification do not allow much variance. The synthetic base oil is just more uniform in molecular structure and less prone to shearing than a conventional oil, so it does tend to hold up longer.

 

All synthetics are petroleum based. The base stock oil they use to refine it into the finished product varies with all of your cheaper off the shelf "synthetics" not using a true synthetic base stock. There was a lawsuit years ago where companies that used the better base stocks sued companies like Mobil for mislabeling their conventional oil as synthetic. They lost and the result was you have a lot of so-called synthetics out there that use a lower grade of base stock and are not a true synthetic in my opinion. I only use synthetics in my gear boxes the engine gets plain Rotella changed every 10,000 miles. If I were to use a synthetic it would be Amsoil but I don't see the money savings benefit out of it without having a bypass setup on my truck so I don't.

 

The group III (Rotella, Delo, Valvoline, Castrol, some of the Mobil stuff) synthetics are petroleum based, being made from severly hydrocracked petroleum base oil. The Group IV (Amsoil, Royal Purple, Schaeffer, some Mobil stuff) synthetic base oil is made from natural gas. Schaeffer does a little twist in their full synthetic 9000 line, they combine a Group IV and a Group III. The Group III synthetics are the ones that most would claim as not a true synthetic and is not allowed to be marketed as such in Europe. But, the recent technology has narrowed the gap that once existed between Group III and Group IV. Either is an improvement over the traditional Group II conventional oils on the shelf.

So there is truth to what rollin coal said regarding synthetics being petroleum based.

I would take issue, though, that changing oil at 10,000 miles is probably too much of a good thing. I have not seen much evidence that it is needed that soon in any engine since the mid '90s. Even the OEM's all have had oil change interval recommendations of 20,000 or more for quite a while. Based on used oil analysis, I sometime feel quilty for dumping my oil at 20,000. But to each his own. A similar thing could be said of autos. Many still do the old 2000 or 3000 mile oil changes when most of todays oils will perform quite well to 5000 or even 7000 miles. But old habits die hard. The oil companies are sure not going to complain!

 

Didn't realise group IV's were from natural gas. Cat recommends 15,000 on my engine. Oil isnt cheap but it's cheaper than metal.

 

Yeah, I didn't realize about Grp IV's either until about a year ago. Doesn't mean anything bad though. Natural Gas provides a very stable, uniform molecular structure that makes Group IV's what they are.

Do you do regular used oil analysis to see if you couldn't go to Cat's recommended oil change interval? If the wear metals are low and the oil is holding up, that would allow you to save about 30% on oil and filters. Not a massive savings, but every little bit helps in this business. I have done 20,000 mile intervals for over a decade. Wear metals don't seem to move up till around 22,000, so I settled on 20,000. At about 25,000, they start to spike higher than I am comfortable with. By then as well, the oil is showing signs of weakening. TBN is getting about as low as I can stand, and the viscosity is starting to show signs of thinning.