HHO Fuel Cells

[Acer12]

HHO Fuel Cells. Simple technology and simple to build yourself. Plenty of instructionals/experiments on Youtube and here's one the UK sells that increases mileage by 40%. Check it out.

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[MedicineMan]

these are simple. I built them in school. The problem is untill there is some sort of breakthrough it takes more electricy to make the hydrogen then it produces and the anode rods deteriorate rapidly

[SnoFox]

i got someone who wants put one of these on my big truck. He says it wont void warranty and that ill get 50% better fuel mileage and upto 50% more horsepower. If this is true, how come the companies havent ALL converted to this already? I HAVE to think it will void the warranty on my cat motor. These motors are tuned to run on diesel, when u start injecting HHO and upping the votility of the fuel to make more horsepower how can that not void the warranty and or harm this finely built and tuned cat

[Markvfl]

I too am seriously interested in if the laws of physics are being re written with the HHO technology available today. If someone, anyone can PROVE it works I'll be the 1st in line to use it. I'll go to almost any length to verify it - won't go to England

[BrainHurtz]

Actually while water injection actually does work for diesels the HHO thing is a bunch of hogwash and always has been. The first reason is that you can't get more energy from combining hydrogen and oxygen than have to put in to seperate it. Feeding a miniscule amount of free hydrogen and oxygen atoms into the air intake of a diesel does not magically change the way diesel fuel burns in the cylinders.

You can buy magnets to go on your fuel lines and stickers to put on your gas tank that all "improve your gas milage by more than 5%" but they're all the same, scams.

Water and nitrous injection do work well on diesels but there is the fact that you have to constantly refill three items instead of one.

If you're interested you should check out 6 cycle engines, which do work and have amazing potential, but they aren't quick fixes for today's technology.

[Moses]

I really like the 6 cycle, but there are still problems with it. The difference in piston speed between the diesel power stroke and the steam power stroke is huge, and has so far kept the 6-er from living up to its potential in multi-cylinder engines. If development continues we could get a practical version in 5-10 years?

[Hammer166]

I think, Moses, you've struck the nail square!

The answer to the uneven expansion rates is to superheat the water. That, of course, reduces the cooling effect the steam cycle, but does capture more of the combustion heat (an exhaust gas heat exchanger being the practical way to preheat the injection water. ) It would take testing to decide where the optimum cooling/ power trade off lies. Also to be considered are the hazards of superheated water (over 212 F yet still liquid). Steam burns are nasty, you get burned by the initial temperature and then the steam condenses releasing more heat to the flesh.

The other big problem will be emissions. The by products of combustion are the same, except now a portion are mixed in the steam exhaust. Not sure you could keep the steam exhaust hot enough to run through a catalytic converter. And dealing with them in solution would also be a pain. In a non-compliance application (not sure if there's many of these left ) you could sure tweak one these babies up, but in our EPA/CARB world I think it'd get pretty tough. Even without the problem of a mobile pressure vessel and the regs that must involve.

[brtecson]

couldnt you make a 6 cylinder that always has a compression ignition power stroke and a steam cycle stroke at the same time?

[Hammer166]

Originally Posted by brtecson

couldnt you make a 6 cylinder that always has a compression ignition power stroke and a steam cycle stroke at the same time?

Sure you could.(well, I'm way too tired to do the mental calc and make sure, but you could at least partially drive the steam stroke) But the idea is to get enough energy from the steam cycle to make for extra frictional and pumping losses.

The setup you talk about would actually do a better job of cooling the cylinders because you'd be forcing a small vacuum if you're pulling the piston down faster than the steam is generated.

[Moses]

The problem with the 6-stroke is that diesel and steam expand at vastly different rates. The diesel wants to idle at 500 rpm, the steam's expansion only permits say 100 rpm. This would prevent the steam cycle from being a true power stroke, and it sets up some ugly harmonics in the crank. Superheating the steam could close the gap, but requires an extra energy input, eliminating the fuel savings.

In its current state of development, the 6-stroke injects water into the combustion chamber, and the heat generated by compression is sufficient to produce steam. The steam then expands, producing the second power stroke, and simultaneously absorbs heat from the cylinder walls.

I think there's potential there, but it's going to need a lot of development before it's ready for prime time. Although the idea's been around since 1915, so there's not much hurry.

EDIT: The Napier Deltic engines used by the Royal Navy seem to do all right with uneven power pulses. But they have three crankshafts:

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