Ham Radio question

[Vols1]

Hams also help out in time of need by setting up communications look at New Orleans. There would have been limited communications. They helped go word to love ones wondering if they were alive or dead.
Just to add my 2 cents.

Oh by the way what do you get when you put a CB'er and a ham operator in the same room? An arguement nothing more.

I'm a CB'er since the 70's that even back then at the age of 12 and 13 know the difference in the two and could understand stay off ham side. Sometimes that is the difference from arguing with a Ham operator and just letting it go.
Some still can't seem to grasp it.

Studying to get my license right now we will see next month. There is more to ham radio’s then turning on a switch and keying a mic. They would like for you to understand the reason things happen. Not to knock the CB’ers but most say give me this amount of power, this antenna, and a loud sounding mic, with all kinds of bells and whistles there that should do it oh yes can someone hook it up for me. HOW DO I SOUND NOW?
We had mic’s that would sound like the Browning Screaming Eagle wantabees and echo. Got back from Germany after spending 4 years in the late 80’s to early 90’s said well we will be traveling I’ll get a cheap CB to travel home until I get my CB/SSB. I hit the interstate and turned it on and heard all the squeals and echoes and things, it was hard for a avid CB’er that stayed up till sometimes all night talking to even keep it on to listen to traffic and cop updates. Yes that was me in the 70’s trying to be the loudest except as a teenager I wired and assembled my CB equipment including beam antenna with flat and vertical side and knew how to tune up a radio for more watts for both receive and transmit side. Still have my Tram D-201 I tweaked and strapped to dead key about 50 watt and peak what was a ton back then. WOW they were the days.

Tip you by what you want but at least you can’t say I didn’t know they were illegal and be truthful to yourself. If you want that 10 meter radio for 11 meters you go for it. But when you get your ham license it will be illegal. Man with a ham license if you need power to talk to someone you just build it yourself if you can or by it legal. But use only the output you need to reach them not 1,000 watts to talk to your friend in the next town or traveling down the interstate the truck 4 seconds off your SIX.
Your cellphone concept came from a ham operator experimenting.

Just to add my 2 cents.

[Tip]

Originally Posted by TruckerLlew

Tip, Another thing, don't take what this conversation has come to as a indication of what ham radio is really all about.

Ham radio is a fun hobby. It is something that takes a bit of dedication to to really understand and enjoy it.

You mentioned one thing in a previous post that isn't entirely true. IF your willing to learn about electronics and theory, then you don't need to buy expensive equipment. You can make your own radio's if you learn stuff. Some simple kits can run around $50-$70. It can be much more fulfilling to build and operate your own equipment rather then buy the most expensive playtoys around.

Ham radio is about experimentation and learning things. Not becoming an "appliance operator"

Most of the folks are alright. Some can be a bit of a PIA, but thats happens in every social hobby. Just gotta take the good with the bad and the ugly.

If you decide to join the ham radio ranks, then Welcome to the hobby! When you get your ticket, let us know so we can look for ya.

That's exactly what I'd want to do, too. Build my own unit. Forget buying an appliance. I'll build the damn thing myself.

What about the antenna? Sorry, man. I know nothing about these things yet. Can you give me the straight up on a metal tree?

[Gadfly]

Tip,

I, too, hope you join the amateur radio hobby. It is an education in itself and very rewarding. I wasn't 'going off' on YOU, but there there was a poster that tended to not only make feeble attempt to defend the outlaw CB activities, but to minimize amateur radio itself without which there would have been NO CB to start with!

The difference in amateur radio and CB (the "chicken band" I spoke of where there is so much disregard for rules) is the amateurs tend to be more respectful of the rules AND more likely to follow generally accepted practices that keep things from deteriorating into mayhem. Just listen to the two groups and you will immediately note the difference. These "outlaw" activities such as modified radios, "extree" channels, and power amps in the hands of untrained consumers, basically is what creates the havoc and severely reduced capability of CB radio! The sole objective of so many CB ops seems to be the satisfaction of some lack either in their small anatomy or mental abilities that can only be soothed by "stomping mudducks". It is truly silly and completely infantile, yet is almost worshipped by so many CB ops. It leaves mature people perplexed as to why this is such high "fun" when the average amateur gets the same "high" from a conversation with another amateur in South Africa. This "kick" comes from learning about other cultures, learning just how similar they are to our own culture and making friends he will run into again and again on the air.

This "education" comes from such contact as well as practice in building equipment, trying it out, FAILING, and trying again. Then REWARD as the project you built WORKS, and you have now learned something of value that you can use in your next project.............and the next. As you referred to, building things is a part of the total hobby, sometimes more so than just merely talking on the radio. CB leans towards the "bucket mouth", the "ratchet jaw", the LACK of building equipment as transmitting equipment for CB must be FCC-approved. CB is a civilian appliance that is not FOR "hobby", tho it has morphed into that and has tried to "compete" with amateur radio. For that reason, feeble attempts by the outlaw CB crowd are made to equate their hobby with amateur radio, to try to give some sort of legitimacy to their illegal activities when it can't be done. Often lots of myths are promoted as "putdowns" such as the "ham is dying", and "every ham is over 57 years" (HORSE HOCKEY---shall you introduce you to the 10-12-15-17 y/o hams I know?) and so on.

It is hard to overcome the "seedy" reputation CB has acquired over the years--the "smokey and the bandit" stuff, the trailer park essence, the tendency of some (this is certainly not ALL CB hobbiests, but enough to cause negative press) to ignore Part 95, to use illegal equipment and go onto frequencies they have no business. Is it any WONDER that it gets disrespected?

So, by all means, explore this wonderful world of amateur radio and, in return, receive the huge benefits the hobby can give you! It will PALE in comparison to that of ancient and limited CB radio!!!!!!!!! You may then begin to understand why it is that many hams DO resent finding outlaw CBers on their bands!


73

Gadfly

[tfisher63]

Hey Tip, go for it, get your ticket and you'll become involved in a rewarding hobby for life. Since I got my ticket back in March, I've built several antennas, made a whole bunch of new friends, got involved with our local Emergency Operations Center, not to mention just having a blast. There are so many ways to enjoy the hobby, its almost endless, digital, computer defined radios, packet radio, aprs, CW (morse code), jsut to name a few...

For antenna designs for nearly any situation or band, check out Ham Universe and look for the antenna link on the left. Or heres a link to another one, [LINK POSTED BY MEMBER] Only Members Can View This Truck Forum Link. Have you ever heard the expression, "throw a wire up in a tree and talk around the world" well, we do it every year on field day, its entirely possible. When you build your own antenna and make your first contact far away, its a thrill you cant quite explain. I made a roll up j pole antenna for 2 meter that fits in my pocket (made out of twin lead) that I have talked over 10 miles on, with only 5 watts of power.

For a lot of good info and a subscription to QST magazine join the ARRL.

Have fun and hope ot hear you on the air...

[mhw]

If I have a 10 meter radio in my truck and only operate it on the c.b. freqs is that illegal?

[Gadfly]

Unfortunately, (and I know folks get tired of hearing this) it is. Why? The channelized "10 Meter" radios are not approved for use by FCC. All Land Mobile radios are to be certified for use in the service it is intended for. Second reason, they usually exceed the power allowed for CB which is 4 watts output. And, lastly, they are easily modified to operate not only on the amateur bands, but also on a wide range of frequencies from about 26.000 MHZ all the way up to 30 MHZ. A REAL "CB" radio has ONLY a 40 channel selector with pre-set channels assigned by FCC.

While, some drivers may, indeed, remain ON the actual CB band, those "band" switches are, for the majority of people, just TOO much of a temptation to stray into the actual 10 Meter band (as well as into government and commercial areas). To the outlaw operator, the so-called
"10 Meter" radio has appeal because of the illegal promotion of "extra" channels and extra power along with a certain "prestige" associated with the word "amateur" that appears on these chrome-faced boxes with the roger beep and "echo". They are, however, just another CB radio with "channels" and illegal "bands" trying to legitimize themselves under the name of "amateur" radio. A REAL amateur radio has NONE of these "features"---no chrome, no roger beep (shudder), no echo, and no "channels". In fact, most licensed amateur radio operators would not HAVE one of them because they are inferior in quality and because of the stigma of illegality. Mostly, they resent the presence of unlicensed operators that show up ON the 10 Meter band and, indeed, become angry enough to track them down to turn in to the Feds (see other posts here)!
Thus, most hams want nothing to do with CB-style "10 Meter" radios and would like to see them destroyed. If not for finding outlaw operators on their bands, they wouldn't care, but this thing of "freebanding" that makes illegal CBers think that they have some sort of "rights" to go there (10M) just infuriates them.

I hope this sheds light on the topic (probably more than you wanted!)

73

Gadfly

[BobC]

What a bunch of pius, high handed malarky.

Let me tell you how it really was when I had a ticket; which I let slide by the way when all you "professional cb'ers" took to the bands because the fcc finally lowered the entrance requirements.

I confess not listening to the hamster bands for better than 10-12 years.
However, prior to that time the biggest scofflaws were extras & advanced class licensees.
There was equally as much arguing & intentional interference as on cb.

You berate cb'ers because they have contests.
Yet, every year & during many parts of the year, Hamsters do the exact same thing.
Create havoc on the bands..all of them..in the name of whatever or whoever sponsors a contest.

I know, I've had to deal with all those contests qrm'ing my regular conversations, on regularly scheduled times, over multiple days of contesting.

You contesters seemed to think you owned the bands just because some publishing company decided it was time to support one of its advertisers.

And for some unknown reason, the fcc turned a very deaf ear to these contests & probably still does.

How hypocritical can you people be?

And to berate anyone for being out of band?

C'mon! I know all those clubs had novices & techs working the radios on HF while the other properly licensed ops were resting, eating or went home for the night.

Lets talk output power shall we?
I can't tell you how many hamsters were running 5kw or better during regular roundtables & more when contesting.

I know because I set them up with a Henry, an Alpha, a Harris or Collins or built/modified something for them.

Should I go on about the skeletons in hamster radio's closet?

Don't cast stones when you live in a glass house.

I've been there, done that & got the wardrobe to go with it.

And yes, whenever there's an NPRM that finds it necessary to dig into the hamster bank of avaliable frequencies for commercial use..my name will be on it in support of the commercial interest.

[TruckerLlew]

LOL you just know EVERYTHING...lol Uh huh.

Claims with no proof mean nothing

[Gadfly]

ANYONE is welcome to visit MY ham shack at anytime (unless I am sleeping) INCLUDING any FCC agent. (Not only have I had one HERE in the shack, but I had the privilege of riding with him for a day while he DF'ed a commercial land mobile station who was violating the rules that apply to his station. Here in MY shack, you will find two absolutely LEGAL transmitters; one Icom 706 MKIIG multiband radio and one Atlas 350 XL w/matching PS along with various test gear and metering equipment. The 706 is 100 watts, the Atlas runs 180 watts average on all bands. There is also an Ameritron AL811 600 watt amplifier (legal for amateur stations). It is rarely turned on. I never talk OUT of band, I NEVER talk on CB at the house and only listen while on the road long enough to find out where the accidents and back-ups may be! I don't LIKE shenanigans, banal, childish foolishness. I follow the rules. I expect others to do the same. Be he ham or CBer, I have no respect for outlaws or immature goofballs. What is good for the goose is good for the gander, so if a ham is operating against the law, then I would WANT him to get what's coming to him same as those truckers who filch on the 10 meter band. AGAINST THE LAW IS AGAINST THE LAW! PERIOD!!!!

To hear Bob C tell it, all hams violate the rules. Yes, a FEW do. Out of 600,000 hams (approximately) there will appear about 2-4 hams per month that are sent warning notices. Bob C uses unproven and undocumented speculation to support his claims. I would take BETS IF the Fed kept up with CB the way they do with licensed stations (with documented locations, etc), the number of CBers being cited would FAR exceed that of amateur radio by a wide margin! That is simply a fact. I wish they DID keep up with CB the way they do with other services. Just LOOK on the internet at the huge numbers of CB outlets selling bootleg (illegal) amplifiers and so-called "10 Meter" radios along with "peak and tune" jobs or "super-whacked-out" radios that splatter/ ruin spectrum 2 MHZ above and below their center frequency. (My gosh, some of the radios drivers run, ya can't hardly UNDERSTAND what they are saying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Yet, they think they are LOUD and PROUD and sound juuuuuuuust sooooooooo damn good! In fact, they sound like a load of HORSE dung. Yeah, they are 'loud' all right(sarcasm on).


10 or 12 years? Pre-Riley Hollingsworth. I can tell you, if you haven't listened at all for "10 or 12 years" your info is WAY out of date. It WAS bad back then! It isn't perfect now, but it is a LOT better than then! Mr H really took some people to task. removed some people's tickets, fined a few until they became believers. It was also HE that initiated the actions against the trucking companies and asking licensed amateurs to HELP get those people OFF the ham bands that don't belong. People scoffed and made fun. ..........until the letters started coming, THEN it was WHOA!!!!
"It ain't FAIR"!!! "But I got a 'rah't' to talk on them 'channels'" (you do NOT!)

There is NO "pius" (sic) marlarkey. The bottom line and what we are really discussing is 1) the 10 meter radios are illegal to SELL. PERIOD! We can sit here and argue with each other until Hades freezes shut! 2) It is against the law to TRANSMIT anywhere outside the CB band without a license. PERIOD. No exceptions. It has nothing to do with being "pius" You may NOT transmit on the 10 Meter band without the license (or on the police band, or the aviation band or other bands, either). PERIOD! If you DO get caught transmitting where you don't belong, you CAN certainly get fined a LOT of money. Dealers who SELL the illegal stuff are finding this out. CBers who USE the illegal radios are finding out that they wish they hadn't!!!! Truckers are being told to STOP transmitting off-band and to remove the "10 Meter" radios. These are FACTS. Piety has nothing to do with it, and all the licensed users want is for the illegal operators to stay OFF their "turf"! If *I* broke in your house, you'd want something done OR you'd take action yourself to remove the intruder. The hams are taking action to get the unwelcomed (because they are STEALING something the hams EARNED) operators OFF 10 Meters by documenting and reporting their findings. It's all proper and according to the law. It's got nothing to DO with being "pius" (sic).

Gadfly

[Doma]

And this is exactly why I disassembled my shack and let my rotor rust still atop my rohn over in the corner of the yard. I am a ham and it started with me pulling apart 2 zenith trans oceanic short waves and comming up with one working unit at the age of 8. For christmas of that year 1978. I received a TRC navjaho 40 channel base, with a back of set indoor antenna, which I found to not be too efficent so I walked to the library and found some arrl antenna books and built a wire diapole for the 11 meter band, I'll never forget the long nights of talking local and seeing the glow of tubes from the old zenith. On 11 meters there was a group of people in my area who were the nicest and most pleasent people they took me in and always treated me fair in the long rag chewing sessions. One guy actually would take me fishing alot cause my old man was never home. (couldnt do that thees days) but it was very different back then.. There was a lady and god forgive me for frogetting her name. But she would have cookouuts every other weekend and we would all go and show off our mobiles. I had a hygain in my moms car that guy bill who took me fishin gave it to me.. Life went on and i ended up in an odd situation for most of my teenage years. But after marrige I took up my old hobby and went all the way, got my General class (yes it was when code was manditory) but i learned it, had to teach my self math (didnt do a stich of it in school) and passed with nothing wrong, in all my exams Novice, tech, Gen. So I put together a shack and a shack it was Icom ic736 HF-6 meters. A yaesu FT-1000 mp and a FT 847 for 2 and 70 cm. I had a frontier engineering 7kw RF amp and a collins rockwell Auto tuner, I think I had almost every HT on the market in the mid 90's at some point. and enough aluminum from cushcraft to build a 767, up on the rohn..You know what.. All that stuff is gone I have 6 bear cat 890 scanners, a uniden grant base. A layfette comstat 2 and a gemtronics base in my shed. I have a home made verticle ant up about 35 ft. which I made from and old cush craft 5000 and a butternut vert. and yes it is built and cut for 11 meters. I found a group of guys whp frequent ch 17 almost every night and we chew the hell out of it. No beeps no robots. I love it. I spent around 100k trying to find it on the HAM bands but all I found was a real bunch of lead headed and mostly prejudice old men, not all of them I dont want to label all there are some good folk out there, but even in person, I joined numerus clubs, did disaster training and skywarn and never found anyone to be really nice or welcoming. Thats why the hobby is dying take a look at the demographic, oh well Just my 2c in all of this oh and case any even dares. I have dxcc'd twice with legal limit, I have dxcc'd with a qrp mobile rig, homebrew tin can style about 4.5-5 watts...I have worked and certed all 50 states on 6 meters (god I miss thoes good spot days) I have also come in the top 10 in many contests single handed numerous times. So just in case any one may think I don't know what I am talking about.
But here I sit as happy as a bug with my cb's chewing away with the locals, and by the by I run a Galaxy 99V in my truck with a homebrew ant half hustler half scrap metal LOL, I run it because when the sun gets frisky and I am at work I can work some dx on the 10 M band and it also has a quality audio out put for cb work but when it is on 11 M it is turned down to 5 watts which is still illigal, on 11 . but other than that this thing is garbage compared to a nice pro am radio. and there is no echo or other nonesense, just a warm 636 stuffed with cotton and just the right amount of shredded tolile paper. to sound almost broad cast. Ahh the things You learn from broadcast school. And paling around with Art, I miss em. Operators ruined ham became too elite for the young learner who needed advice, too set in old ways, and too nasty if an honest mistake was made. Too bad really is would much rather have spoken these words at a round table somewhere around 7.233, but whatever.