BANDS BEYOND the 40

[KoonDog]

Dammit, boy!

I guess I can say that my questions, for the most part, were answered. I now know what's legal and what's not... though I'd like to learn more from tiredtruckdriver on the ""shooting AM skip"... but, I'm guessing that convo may be a private one.

That night I stayed up for hours reading thread after thread on CBs, 10 meters, General Lee's, etc., I knew posting this thread would get replies from most of the knowledgeable people (drivers and "hams", alike) on this forum, but I never imagined it would spark some the tense debates I've read tonight! I guess it's a good thing this is an online dicussion and we're not all in the same room!

Honestly, I will most likely hang onto the General Lee because it does a damn good job at what I bought it for... using the AM 40 to communicate with receivers I deliver to upon arrivals, with other drivers for various information and, quite frankly, to minimize the boredom solo driving occasionally involves. There's no one I know or talk to on a weekly basis that uses any of the other bands, I prefer to give Uncle Sam as little of my hard-earned legal tender as possible, and this particular unit doesn't feature SSB so I think it's a safe bet I'll never "feel the need" to key up where I'm not wanted or "privileged" to be. You can sleep sound tonight, Gadfly! LOL! However, after reading all of what has transpired in this thread, I must say I'm more intrigued to "browse" for anything I might hear.

As I mentioned before, the HAM guys here in Garland that I have talked to (NOT on my radio... hehehe) seem really cool and willing to help me get started once I have the time to do so, and when I do have the time I will certainly check into it.

You guys have all been a big help. (at least, I think everyone so far has been guys... if not, my apologies to the ladies). Hope no ones' blood pressure rose to a dangerous level on my account.

[KoonDog]

The General Lee ANYONE would have!

[W5IT]

Originally Posted by KoonDog

The General Lee ANYONE would have!

YEP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wc5b]

Originally Posted by thetez

wc5b, i wasnt trying to saY I disliked ham or anything, i understand everything you told me, only thing i disagree with is the more power thing, i know with a crappy set up it wont do a thing but a bunch of the ssbers i talk with live down in holes and i can only hear them when they turn on the linears,

i didnt mean to sounds like i was trying to start anything or was p.o'd at people or anything, i understand i was just pretty much stating my view on the whole thing.... and i really am too poor, and dont have enough time to study, like thousands in debt, 60k just from school, and i got plenty of other debts im trying to pay off but not getting paid enough to do it.

I never thought you were starting anything. I just used your post to address some misconceptions. BTW, After a divorce, I am in the same boat. My point is, dont let money stop you.

[wc5b]

Originally Posted by KoonDog

Dammit, boy!

I guess I can say that my questions, for the most part, were answered. I now know what's legal and what's not... though I'd like to learn more from tiredtruckdriver on the ""shooting AM skip"... but, I'm guessing that convo may be a private one.

That night I stayed up for hours reading thread after thread on CBs, 10 meters, General Lee's, etc., I knew posting this thread would get replies from most of the knowledgeable people (drivers and "hams", alike) on this forum, but I never imagined it would spark some the tense debates I've read tonight! I guess it's a good thing this is an online dicussion and we're not all in the same room!

Honestly, I will most likely hang onto the General Lee because it does a damn good job at what I bought it for... using the AM 40 to communicate with receivers I deliver to upon arrivals, with other drivers for various information and, quite frankly, to minimize the boredom solo driving occasionally involves. There's no one I know or talk to on a weekly basis that uses any of the other bands, I prefer to give Uncle Sam as little of my hard-earned legal tender as possible, and this particular unit doesn't feature SSB so I think it's a safe bet I'll never "feel the need" to key up where I'm not wanted or "privileged" to be. You can sleep sound tonight, Gadfly! LOL! However, after reading all of what has transpired in this thread, I must say I'm more intrigued to "browse" for anything I might hear.

As I mentioned before, the HAM guys here in Garland that I have talked to (NOT on my radio... hehehe) seem really cool and willing to help me get started once I have the time to do so, and when I do have the time I will certainly check into it.

You guys have all been a big help. (at least, I think everyone so far has been guys... if not, my apologies to the ladies). Hope no ones' blood pressure rose to a dangerous level on my account.

Its no problem. Debate is healthy, and oddly fun! HAHA. BTW AM Skip talk does not have to be privite. "skip" is what HF Ham Radio is all about. If you like that, you would love HF Ham Radio. In easy terms, SSB is the best and most efficent peices of the AM signal, and allow skipping much more easily. You wont see much SSB or AM "skip" on CB for about 3-6 more years into this next solar cycle. Hams still experiance it on many of its bands, but with degraded preformance.

[AB8RU]

Originally Posted by tiredtruckdriver

If it's not a HAM radio, then why does the FCC consider them Illegal?

Why do HAMS like you and GADFLY and others make such a big deal about these so called "HAM" radio's if there not "HAM" radio's?

I will guarantee you this, there are MORE HAMS listening and instigating on CB channels (1-40) than there are CB operators listening to the HAM frequencies and keying up.

Tired Truck Driver the FCC has Engineers that are fully trained in Electronics beyond the fuse, the New Word is Type Certified and in order for any trasmitter or reciever to meet certain FCC requirements..

The Manufacturer must submit XX amount of any given model to have a test performed and must meet or exceed Specifications in order to be type Certified. heres a list.

1. Must be able to operate in the designated frequency range for that particular service.
2. Must not exceed certain power output of that service.
3. Must not bleed over or cause interference to another service ie Marine cannot interfere with a fire department, and vica versa.
4. they may only operate in certain Modes AM, FM, USB, LSB, CW, RTTY, DSS, depending on its service.
5. Specifications may be a certain requirement may be more technical in nature.

there may be more than I have knowledge thereof but I do know this a poorly designed radio will often fail the FCC requirements, for example a Motorola Brand 2 way will be so well designed it surpasses the FCC specifications, a Illegal Radio will fail alright it may be able to operate the Illegal Channels by cutting a wire, have installed the frequencies and called a Export Radio.


I myself am not currently on CB nor do I operate in a mannerism that I have heard for several years on the air and other drivers tell me they just shut their radio off !

there are operators that are in fact operating just keying up we call it kerchunking a repeater it is discouraged but depends on the complaint factor.

I even once found someone running a packet interface having his Call-Sign which I gave to the trustee, who in turn looked up that operators call and had a nice chat with him.

BTW as to tracking someone down Yes it can happen! and thanks to dirty radios or illegal radios they tend to radiate RF more easy like a dripping faucet, right up to that operators location.

the ARRL press has a book on that.

Even right down to the offending transmitter its like a fingerprint.

[k7aab]

==> FCC FINES COLORADO COMPANY FOR SELLING "NON-CERTIFIED CITIZENS BAND
(CB) TRANSCEIVERS"

On Friday, March 21, the FCC released a "Forfeiture Order"
<[LINK POSTED BY MEMBER] Only Members Can View This Truck Forum Link. > in
the amount of $7000 to CB Shop and More in Loveland, Colorado for
"willful and repeated violations of Section 302(b) of the Communications
Act of 1934, as amended (Act), and Section 2.803(a)(1) of the
Commission's Rules." According to the FCC, CB Shop and More was selling
a "non-certified Citizens Band ('CB') transceiver." According to the
Forfeiture Order, the CB Shop and More has been in the Commission's
sights since at least 2002.

Section 302(b) of the Act states: "No person shall manufacture, import,
sell, offer for sale, or ship devices or home electronic equipment and
systems, or use devices, which fail to comply with regulations
promulgated pursuant to this section." Section 2.803(a)(1) reads that
"Except as provided elsewhere in this section, no person shall sell or
lease, or offer for sale or lease (including advertising for sale or
lease), or import, ship, or distribute for the purpose of selling or
leasing or offering for sale or lease, any radio frequency device unless
in the case of a device subject to certification such device has been
authorized by the Commission."

On January 26, 2007, and March 8, 2007, the Denver Office received
complaints alleging that CB Shop and More was selling non-certified CB
transmitters and modified 10 meter band radios. On March 30, 2007, the
Denver agents again visited CB Shop and More and noted that one of the
CB transceivers offered for sale was a Galaxy Model DX99V and asked if
they could purchase the transceiver. "The Denver agents subsequently
identified themselves as FCC agents, and proceeded to interview the
owner of the CB Shop. The owner acknowledged that he once received a
Citation from the FCC, but he thought it was still legal for them to
sell the referenced CB transceivers."

On August 28, 2007, the Denver Office issued a "Notice of Apparent
Liability" (NAL) in the amount of $7000 to CB Shop and More. In the
"NAL," the Denver Office found that CB Shop and More "apparently
willfully and repeatedly violated Section 302(b) of the Act, and Section
2.803(a)(1) of the Rules by offering for sale a non-certified CB
transceiver." CB Shop and More filed a response on September 17, 2007
(Response). In its "Response," CB Shop argued that "Galaxy Model DX99V
does not require certification by the Commission because it is not a CB
transceiver." Consequently, CB Shop and More argued that the forfeiture
should be cancelled.

According to the FCC, the proposed forfeiture amount in this case was
assessed in accordance with Section 503(b) of the Act, Section 1.80 of
the Rules and "The Commission's Forfeiture Policy Statement and
Amendment of Section 1.80 of the Rules to Incorporate the Forfeiture
Guidelines." In examining CB Store and More's "Response," Section 503(b)
of the Act requires that "the Commission take into account the nature,
circumstances, extent and gravity of the violation and, with respect to
the violator, the degree of culpability, any history of prior offenses,
ability to pay, and other such matters as justice may require."

CB radio transceivers are subject to the equipment certification process
and must be certified and properly labeled prior to being marketed or
sold in the United States. Unlike CB radio transceivers, radio
transmitting equipment that transmits solely on Amateur Radio Service
frequencies is not subject to equipment authorization requirements prior
to manufacture or marketing; however, some radio transmitters that
transmit in a portion of the 10 meter band of the Amateur Radio Service
(28.000-29.700 MHz) are equipped with rotary, toggle or pushbutton
switches mounted externally on the unit, allowing operation in the CB
bands after completion of minor and trivial internal modifications to
the equipment.

To address these radios, the Commission adopted changes to the CB-type
acceptance requirements by defining a CB transmitter as "a transmitter
that operates or is intended to operate at a station authorized in the
CB." Section 95.655(a) of the Rules also states that "no transmitter
will be certificated for use in the CB service if it is equipped with a
frequency capability not listed in Section 95.625 of the Rules" (CB
transmitter channel frequencies). Also, the Commission's Office of
General Counsel released a letter on the importation and marketing of
Amateur Radio transmitters, clarifying that transmitters that "have a
built-in capacity to operate on CB frequencies and can easily be altered
to activate that capacity, such as by moving or removing a jumper plug
or cutting a single wire" fall within the definition of a CB transmitter
under Section 95.603(c) of the Rules and therefore require certification
prior to marketing or importation. The Commission's Office of
Engineering and Technology "evaluated Galaxy Model DX99V here and
determined that it could easily be altered for use as a CB transceiver."

The FCC examined CB Shop and More's Response to the NAL "pursuant to the
statutory factors above," and in conjunction with the Forfeiture Policy
Statement. As a result of the review, the Commission concluded that CB
Shop and More "willfully and repeatedly violated Section 302(b) of the
Act, and Section 2.803(a)(1) of the Rules. Considering the entire record
and the factors listed above, we find that neither reduction nor
cancellation of the proposed $7,000 forfeiture is warranted." The
Commission ordered that, pursuant to Section 503(b) of the Act and
Sections 0.111, 0.311 and 1.80(f)(4) of the Commission's Rules, "CB Shop
and More is liable for a monetary forfeiture in the amount of $7,000 for
willfully and repeatedly violating Section 302(b) of the Act, and
Section 2.803(a)(1) of the Rules."

[thetez]

Originally Posted by wc5b

You wont see much SSB or AM "skip" on CB for about 3-6 more years into this next solar cycle. Hams still experiance it on many of its bands, but with degraded preformance.

i tend to disagree, i talk on SSB on CB and their is a lot of skip, although it comes in cycles, well get hit with skip for hours on end for about a week, i on my base have talked all over the country and sometimes further,

i know that this country isnt very far according to hams, and when skip hits it definitely does hit a lot for a while. although i have heard by the year 2010 2011 or 2012 theirs gonna be some awesome skip

[wc5b]

Originally Posted by thetez

i tend to disagree, i talk on SSB on CB and their is a lot of skip, although it comes in cycles, well get hit with skip for hours on end for about a week, i on my base have talked all over the country and sometimes further,

i know that this country isnt very far according to hams, and when skip hits it definitely does hit a lot for a while. although i have heard by the year 2010 2011 or 2012 theirs gonna be some awesome skip

I dont see your disagreement then?!

Its a fact of nature that there is a solar cycle. Its a fact of nature that it effects HF bands, espessially above 10Mhz. (CB is 27Mhz) It is a fact that we are at the rock bottom end of this poor period for propagation.

I did not say you can't at all, I said you "won't see much" for a few years. I.E. much more rare then years ago, or years to come. We are smack in the middle of the low conditions. That does not mean it can't still happen. I heard california on 19 a few days ago. I think I was in Dallas.

[thetez]

well what im getting at is that i think it happens pretty frequently