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  ^ Top   #11  
Old 08.03.2008
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Run it if ya brung it.
Just be aware of what could possibly happen.
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  ^ Top   #12  
Old 08.03.2008
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Cyfre amplifiers use patented software controlled amplification and are the only cellular amplifiers that are approved by major cellular carriers and licensed by Motorola because they cause none of the problems you described . The software driven amplification takes zero additional bandwidth on the network and are totally invisable to the tower management system . The FCC is on the warpath against bad amplifiers that interfere with networks but The CYFRE units are not one of them as Cyfre works closely with Major Cellular carriers to ensure the product does not interfere with the networks. The only problems which are few have occured on wireless units when the end user has not followed the installation manual and has had the interior and exterior antennas too close together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobC View Post
What I write next is out of concern & kindness for fellow drivers & not from a self appointed fcc goober.

You want to be very careful using certain of those cheapazz amplifiers (& they all are).
Some of them are actually illegal to use in this country.

Most of these amplifers are known to create widespread interference to public safety radio systems, cellular systems & nearby individual cellular subscribers when these amps go awry.

When pronounced interference occurs, even from mobile installs, someone from a local radio shop, cellular or a police dept radio shop will come looking for it.

The fcc doesn't generally get involved until later in the game although they do have laws forbidding using certain types of these units.

Once located, your vehicle will be invaded (hopefully with a cop) right there.
The unit will be turned off in any way the tech can do it expeditiously.

Presumably he won't intentionally damage anything in the process, but...that's not a guarantee & you have no one to turn to for damages afterwards.

Here's the rub.
There's 2 basic kinds of mobile cellular amps.
Both are generally called Bi-directional amplifiers (BDA's in radio vernacular).
One type connects directly to the cellphone's antenna port.
The other has no direct connection to the cellphone antenna port.

It is the non-direct connected ones that prove to be the majority of problems.
The direct connect types have also been found troublesome but to a lesser extent.

The problem with the non-direct connect type is the antenna placements.
You have (2) antennas.
One antenna receives & sends to the cellsite.
The other sends & receives to the cellphone.
When the signals from one antenna gets into the other antenna, a feedback loop is created.
The feedback causes the BDA to go into "oscillation".
This is akin to acoustic feedback in a pa system.

Once started, that amplifer is now generating a broadband & uncontrolled hi power signal all over the cellular & public safety bands.

It will continue to do this until you remove power from it.

You, the operator, will probably never know it until/unless someone shows up to shut it off.

Once located, you will be made to shut it down if you're around or they will do it in your absence.

You can be sued by the cellular company, the other subscribers, the public safety agency, anyone who was delayed or denied cellular access to emergency medical help &/or fined by the fcc itself.

This type of interference gets everyone's attention & the fcc takes a very dim view of it unlike the cb amplifier/export radio thing.

The other BDA, the direct connected type, can also succumb to the feedback issue if the outside antenna induces enough radio energy into the cable that connects to the cellphone antenna port.

This can easily happen if the cable between the cellphone & amplifier is not shielded well enough or the connection to the cellphone is loose/dirty or if there's a poor connection thru a cellphone "stand".

I understand the need & desire for these & run one myself.

I just wanted you each to be aware of the possibilities or rather responsibilities you encumber in using one.

No one will sue the BDA maker or importer, its the user who is to blame in all circumstances.

Now you know...as little as I do.

PS. Yes, part of my job is to locate & resolve interference issues for PS & commercial radios systems. I am highly equipped & very good at locating the sources. Unlike some of my bretheren, if you're in a store I'll page you & try to wait for your return...unless the problem is severe enough..then you're on your own getting the doorlock or window fixed. I leave my card alongside the officer's. Sorry, best I can do.
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  ^ Top   #13  
Old 08.13.2008
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Nice try.
But it's mostly the typical hogwash & you know it.

I had a whole post made up that shot more holes in your diatribe than there are in a good chunk of swiss cheese.

I decided to spare everyone that reading.
Instead, I ask you to do something.

Go ahead & post all the written statements from Motorola, Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile & all the other cellular companies that depicts their blanket authorizations & licensing for use of your BDA's & all this "close technical co-operation" between your company & all these cellular outfits.

By the way, since when is Motorola legally able to "license" the use of a mobile amp or BDA?
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  ^ Top   #14  
Old 08.13.2008
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Go ahead and post it. How you expect us to take your word for anything without some proof? Give him your evidence and let him refute or agree with it.
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  ^ Top   #15  
Old 08.13.2008
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AND REMEMBER you can agree to disagree but NO name calling or lowering oneself to posting insults.

THIS is just a friendly reminder.....
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  ^ Top   #16  
Old 08.13.2008
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A customer just sent me the link to this forum chat.
I have only a few comments:
· Do you realize how many city, county, state and federal departments use cellular enhancement devices? If they were illegal, I don’t think they would be using them.
· Why can you purchase a Cyfre enhancement device directly from Alltel at the corporate, business and retail level? If Alltel did not approve the use of them, why are they selling them?
· If they were illegal, why have we not heard of anyone being sued, arrested or having their equipment confiscated?
· BOBC..You mention that “some” are illegal to use in this country. How about some make and model numbers?

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  ^ Top   #17  
Old 08.13.2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cybergal View Post
AND REMEMBER you can agree to disagree but NO name calling or lowering oneself to posting insults.

THIS is just a friendly reminder.....
Woman, you just never let me have any fun!
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  ^ Top   #18  
Old 08.13.2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpsantennas-matt View Post
I have only a few comments:
· Do you realize how many city, county, state and federal departments use cellular enhancement devices? If they were illegal, I don’t think they would be using them.
You're in the realm of comparing apples to oranges here.

The brands of commercial BDA's used in those buildings are not illegal.
They are type accepted by the FCC fort this use.

Another distinction in the law is the BDA must be installed in a fixed location.
It can never be mobile.
There are no legal mobile BDA's in this country.
The FCC will not issue a type acceptance for a mobile one to be used here.

Another part to the laws is that whoever has this BDA must get permission from each & every owner of the frequencies that will pass thru this amp.
Each cell company, police/fire dept, paging etc must give their blessings in writing if their signals will be passed thru this amp.

Another issue in the law, the addition of the BDA cannot increase coverage outside the individual cell company's licensed coverage area.

Each frequency owner is mandated to keep his signal within certain boundaries based on distance from their transmitter.
The BDA cannot increase that range, it can only "fill-in" the gaps within that boundary area.

Also, appreciate how much the commercial devices cost & the amount of engineering that goes into the filtering & signal distribution throughout a building.

A proper BDA generally runs in the neighborhood of about $10-$15k before adding the rest of the system.

It's not uncommon to throw $60-$70k into a BDA system for a mid-size warehouse.
Office complexes are often more depending on frequency & coverage needs, complexity in cable routing & antenna placement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpsantennas-matt View Post
· Why can you purchase a Cyfre enhancement device directly from Alltel at the corporate, business and retail level? If Alltel did not approve the use of them, why are they selling them?
I know this statement has been made by the Cyfre pushers before.
I do not know for a fact that AllTel offers any BDAs to the general public as either a fixed or mobile installation.
I don't know for a fact that AllTel offers in particular the Cyfre brand.
I will look this up on the web when I get thru with this & edit later.
--------------------------Edited
Ok, I went to AllTel's site.
I searched for Cyfre, BDA, amplifier & hands free units. Nuttin', Nada, Zero.
It's possible that AllTel "allowed" someone to use a Cyfre BDA in a building (fixed location) somewhere.
I'm pretty sure AllTel didn't & doesn't "endorse" Cyfre brand over anyone elses.
I'm sure AllTel would prefer to see a much better BDA in use than the run of the mill stuff like Cyfre or Wilson.
-------------------------End Edit
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpsantennas-matt View Post
· If they were illegal, why have we not heard of anyone being sued, arrested or having their equipment confiscated?
Mostly because no one wants to spend the money to push the issue in court.
There's nothing to gain in suing unless there's been damages.

If a civilian's death or injury resulted from the interference I would expect to see a law suit.
If a PS responder were hurt or worse, I can guarantee there'd be a law suit.
I doubt any of this is noteworthy enough to make national news.

The FCC rarely gets notified of the intereference issue.
It's basically handled "in-house".
No one bothers to tell the FCC simply because it's usually a waste of time.
It's the FCC's fault these devices are even here in the first place.

The FCC won't go after the importers or sellers for the same reason they don't bother with cb, not enough money & browny points in it to show Congress how well they're doing their jobs.

Although lately, I've been hearing rumors that the Fcc is taking more notice now but that hardly means much these days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpsantennas-matt View Post
· BOBC..You mention that “some” are illegal to use in this country. How about some make and model numbers?
I couldn't list all the manufacturers; I don't know half of them.
It's easier to give you what to look for.

Most directly, each of the BDA makers like Wilson, Cyfre etc have mobile "wireless" units for sale.
These are illegal & the biggest trouble makers.

As a transmitter, each device requires a FCC type acceptance number.
(Ham radios don't but that's a different category.)
If the device doesn't have a type acceptance, it's not meant to be used here.

If the BDA is installed as a fixed station & not directly connected to your phone's antenna port (wireless), it's illegal to use unless you get explicit permission from all the cell companies, pd's/fd's etc whose signal will pass thru that amp.

If the BDA is installed as a mobile station & not directly connected to your phone's antenna port, it's just plain illegal to be used here.

The only mobile units that stand a chance of being legal are the ones that connect directly to your phone's antenna port.
However, even these need to have a fcc type acceptance number on them because they are a transmitter.

Just because the amp advertisement says "Licensed by Motorola" doesn't mean its ok to use.
That's not an FCC endorsement to use it legally.
That just means the amp maker couldn't design his own product so they bought technology from someone else to use in part of their product.

Last edited by BobC; 08.13.2008 at 07.19 PM.
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  ^ Top   #19  
Old 08.14.2008
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Smile

Okay sir if the product were not approved and licensed by Motorola ,Do you think Motorola would allow thier name to be on the amplifier and Cyfre websites ? The two floors of Lawyers in the US headquarters in Motorola offices in Schuamburg Illinois would just let that slide. I don't think so . Also why don't you call Alltel yourself and verify they sell Cyfre products . Because it is not on thier web sites means they do not sell it. I am not going to lower myself anymore to answer anymore of your statements as you have no idea what you are talking about . As far as our devices being illegal . Go to the FCC web site ( www.FCC.GOV ) . You can look up all our license Numbers . The three letter code for Cyfre devices is RFK . If they were illegal I do not think they would be published on a government website. I have no idea who you are or why you have decided to launch your assault on me or the products I sell .But you are very misinformed. I am a supporter of these forums and have not lied about anything here .
Thanks Matt for trying to enlighten our friend here but he does not want to know any facts he just wants to attack and state his non truths loud enough that perhaps someone will actually will believe it is the truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobC View Post
Nice try.
But it's mostly the typical hogwash & you know it.

I had a whole post made up that shot more holes in your diatribe than there are in a good chunk of swiss cheese.

I decided to spare everyone that reading.
Instead, I ask you to do something.

Go ahead & post all the written statements from Motorola, Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile & all the other cellular companies that depicts their blanket authorizations & licensing for use of your BDA's & all this "close technical co-operation" between your company & all these cellular outfits.

By the way, since when is Motorola legally able to "license" the use of a mobile amp or BDA?
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Last edited by Maximum Signal; 08.14.2008 at 01.27 AM.
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  ^ Top   #20  
Old 08.14.2008
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The brands of commercial BDA's used in those buildings are not illegal.
They are type accepted by the FCC fort this use.

I apologize for not being more specific when commenting on the number of government departments using signal enhancement devices. I should have used the term “mobile cellular signal enhancement devices”


I couldn't list all the manufacturers; I don't know half of them.
It's easier to give you what to look for

How about one brand of illegal or non-F.C.C. approved device? Can you inform the forum readers that?

Last edited by wpsantennas-matt; 08.14.2008 at 02.50 PM. Reason: typo
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