over speed policy ( central drivers )

Discussion in 'Central Refrigerated' started by tangerineGT, Apr 9, 2014.

  1. Lady K

    Lady K Road Train Member

    WOW... This discussion is getting 'heavy'... LOL!

    Sorry, just had to go there... Well it was funny in my head :)
     
    BrettN70, Buckeye91, Doulos and 2 others Thank this.
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  3. Moosetek13

    Moosetek13 Road Train Member

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    That's really funny, that you think gravity is the propelling force in a slingshot.
    Gravity is the force that increases the speed of the object, but only so far as its closest approach - then it is a force that decreases the objects speed.
    From that point, it is simply the objects inertia that propels it - if it doesn't have any other means of propulsion.

    Gravity can only be used to accelerate a mass closer to larger mass.
    It can never propel something away from itself.
    It is not a propelling force, it is an attractive force.

    In a slingshot, gravity is used to help accelerate a mass and/or to change direction.
    But once past that closest point, gravity starts to pull it back.

    If the approach and exit paths are correct the object will have more velocity in the end.
    But that is due to the objects increased kinetic inertial force, which gravity had provided the potential (force) for.


    And in all of this transfer of energy, I wonder.
    Does the transfer of energy from the larger mass to the smaller, to increase its velocity, decrease the overall gravity field strength of the larger mass?
     
  4. tangerineGT

    tangerineGT Road Train Member

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    " gravity can only be used to accelerate a mass closer to a larger mass "

    So , thats why "little cars " ride my ### all the time , and here I thought it was just because I was going slow as hell.

    When in racing the term "slingshot" is actually gravity pulling the car around the other one then huh ?
    pretty sure that has to due with the lack of friction from the wind resistance , and because of less friction it allows said vehicle to travel faster. There is no extra force applied to the car , it just plain and simple loses resistance for a short period of time.

    And also like to add "inertia" is not a dam force .
    Newton first law describes that .

    If no external force is applied , a object in motion will stay in motion , object at rest will stay at rest .
    tomorrow , go down the highway and slam on the brakes , your body will want to go forward , why ? Because it has enertia , and only til you , or the dash board slows you down it will try to keep going .
    example kinda : why does it take more to stop say a train , or a big truck as opposed to a small car . Its not because of a force because there is nothing pushing it ( well I guess the motor is ) lol
    bad example .
    Take a bucket of water , drive down the highway , hit the brakes . What happens ?
    the water tries to keep moving , til it spills or the container it is in tries to stop it .


    We can go around for another month or two on this subject , because there are always people that want to argue , what a great scientist allready has proven .

    I am done , thats it . My brain hurts from trying to remember this #### from 15 years ago.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
  5. Moosetek13

    Moosetek13 Road Train Member

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    My dear TangerineGT,

    Inertia is not an external force, but internal and inherent to all mass and matter.
    It is the force of resistance, which you are expressing right now.

    You prove it with your argument; being a body of mass that resists all attempts to change its motion - even in your thought processes.

    You fail to see that inertia might just be the most fundamental force of all the forces.
    It is the force that never changes. It is the force that keeps things still.
    It is the silent force.

    I'm sorry if Newton didn't see it, but then he didn't see a lot of things.
     
  6. Moosetek13

    Moosetek13 Road Train Member

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    And guess what?
    That car losing wind resistance to slingshot around that other car is using the kinetic energy (and applied energy = force) of inertia to do it.
    The wind is a force against inertia's momentum, and inertia is a force that helps propel the car to the front.
     
  7. Moosetek13

    Moosetek13 Road Train Member

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    Think of this.

    Take away inertia all together from the equation.
    If you do so, it would take no more braking power to stop a 100 pound go-cart than it would an 80,000 truck - or a million pound train.
     
  8. Moosetek13

    Moosetek13 Road Train Member

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    And if I slam on the brakes, yes, I will be propelled forward by my own inertia.
    The braking force was only applied to the truck - not to me or the water.

    Your arguments make no sense.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
  9. Moosetek13

    Moosetek13 Road Train Member

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    Inertia, like gravity, is a force inherent to mass.
    They are simply perpendicular forces to one another.

    Gravity seeks to draw in, while inertia seeks to keep constant.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
  10. Moosetek13

    Moosetek13 Road Train Member

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    We could always expand the discussion to include the force of Time, which is opposite to one and also perpendicular to the other.
    Too bad Time has more effect than either Gravity or Inertia, because that is why the universe is expanding at an ever increasing rate.

    You might overcome inertia and gravity, but time always wins in the end.
     
  11. Doulos

    Doulos Medium Load Member

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    Okay, first gravity is not one directional. Each body exerts an attraction on the other determined by the mass of both objects and their distance from one another. Therefore each mass changes the inertia of the other. Now, once again, this is what defines a force. A force causes a vector acceleration on matter.

    If inertia were a force, then it would be able to cause a net gain in vector acceleration of objects. It can't. This is why inertia is an energy, not a force. (I wonder if you are confusing force and energy and perhaps force with fundamental force?) However, a transfer of energy also acts as a force (but not a fundamental force as we have been speaking of). This is accomplished in many ways, but is usually described by one moving object striking another object. There is another way that this is accomplished and this is in a slingshot maneuver. The gravity of a body both accelerates and decelerates the object equally, but that body is also in an orbit and the object is accelerated/decelerated in the direction of the motion of that orbit. And so the object steals some of the body's inertia to accelerate. But, before you celebrate this fact, where did the energy of the body's inertia come from? it came from the gravity of a body which it in turn orbits (the sun in the case of a planet). So, it is indeed gravity that is the ultimate source of acceleration in NASA's slingshot maneuver.

    You also used some imprecise terminology. Gravity does indeed accelerate objects toward each other, but this does not always result in the objects being closer or gaining speed for that matter. As is the case with objects in orbit.
     
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