First, I have nothing to do with any railroad. My nick relates to one of my hobbies: collecting locomotive horns.

Now on to the question: Before 2002, I drove a school bus for 5 years. I have a clean, unblemished driving record. I had to leave the school bus driving job due to a disability, when I was diagnosed with autism. Autism is a condition that people are born with, it's not something that you catch from some sort of bug. It's a developmental disability that's related to the central nervous system. It affects communication much the same way a hearing loss does.

Recently, my primary doctor cleared me for the DOT physical. He felt that my condition would not have any affect on my ability to drive a commercial vehicle, and this is evidenced by my clear driving record. However, when I saw him most recently he stated that my chances of making it through a job interview would be very slim, if not impossible.

I have looked for employment that's not related to driving, just menial jobs to supplement my Social Security. I was told by one store manager that he WILL NOT hire me for the job I applied for at his store: pushing shopping carts. I also turned in an application for a janitorial job, cleaning a local transit bus terminal. The interviewer told me that he would need to forward the application to the human resources department for a closer examination of my prior job history. I did not hear back from that company.

I have a feeling that my doctor may be having some second thoughts about granting me another physical. But, there is no psychiatric diagnosis that exists and I don't require any medication or treatment for anything related to a psychiatric condition. I have read nothing about people with autism being disqualified for obtaining the DOT medical certificate.

Before I became a bus driver, I once attempted to get an FAA medical certificate so I could get a private pilot's license. Back then, I was diagnosed with major depression and was taking medications for it. The FAA denied me the certificate. However, I recently spoke with an aviation medical examiner, and he said that I would need a letter from a psychiatrist. The letter would be to verify that I don't have a psychiatric diagnosis, and that no treatment or medications are indicated at this time. With that letter, I would stand a 100% chance of passing.

Here's the question: Is it harder to pass the DOT physical than it is to pass the FAA physical? Will I need a letter from a psychiatrist when I go to a REAL examiner to take the DOT physical exam? With an autism diagnosis, what are my chances of passing the DOT physical when I go see this guy? Any thoughts?

NorfolkSouthern

wow, I feel for you.

I don't see anything in the FMCSR that would prohibit you from passing a DOT physical or even getting a CDL-A. So long as you can see colors, hear well, have low enough blood pressure, and perform some basic twisting motions, THAT should be ok.

You might need a letter from your normal physician, but maybe not even that. I don't recall anything about autism on the medical history form (I had to deal with Apnea.. but won't go into that story here). If it's not on the form, it may not even come up.

Judging from your post, I'd think your degree of autism is relatively light, and may only affect your verbal communications? (just nosy, no need to answer). And no, I know just about jack about autism...

If it's outbound communications only, I wonder if it would work to carry a hand-held computer or something similar - respond to others via that, instead of building frustration by trying vocal comms? Might even impress the folks in HR.

Going back to your doctor. While I don't know him, from what you are saying, I don't see him as having second thoughts. Seems to me he's trying to be realistic. Far too many people can't see past the communications difficulties to the fact that there's a real thinking, capable individual underneath. Obviously, you have first hand experience with it already, so he's not really telling you something you don't know.

So, while I've never tried to take the FAA physical, I would think it's a lot harder to pass than the DOT. But to know for sure, take a look at the FMCSR (DOT book). It spells out exactly what disqualifies a person...

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Hrm - re-reading that chapter of the rules, autism MAY be an issue - but if you have a letter from your doctor or other medical authority that says 'not a problem', you should be good to go.

Of course, I add the disclaimer: I'm not a doctor, lawyer, or anybody else who might know something.

The 2 dot test I have taken was temp,hearing, blood pressure, and pee in a cup.

Nefram - there's a lot they can do just by observing. No specialized rigamarole needed.

NorfolkSouthern...

I forgot to comment- I approve of your hobby. I, myself, collect locomotives. real ones.

Of course, my collection is rather limited at the moment, owing to space and funding issues. I have yet to figure a way to get a 4-8-0 into my garage.

Cool! Do you have any GP7s in your collection? I especially like the high-hoods, and would love to see a former C&O jeep preserved. If I had the resources, I'd own one too but the issue would be storage. Then a few nice little extras such as transport, maintenance, etc.

As for the autism: I'm thinking it may be an issue too. A part of my concern about the two menial jobs, is that there my be a possiblity that I'm unbondable. This would largely be due to a long employment gap, and the fact that I'm on Social Security disability. From what I could understand from the doctor: He implied that people with Asperger's cannot drive commercially. This is why I think he's not going to clear me for the next physical when it's due, and my considering a visit to at least one psychiatrist for some assistance. I may need to see a different physician when I take the DOT again.

Job preference: I'm thinking that the best job for me would be at an intermodal facility, working independantly. It would have to be a part-time job with an income that would not put me above the RSDI threshold. My doctor emphatically clearified the need to protect my benefits, as I cannot gamble the possibility of landing on the streets after losing a job and benefits both.


NorfolkSouthern

I posted this before on the new driver's questions forum. However, I feel that my question may generate more interest here. So here goes:

First, I have nothing to do with any railroad. My nick relates to one of my hobbies: collecting locomotive horns.

Now on to the question: Before 2002, I drove a school bus for 5 years. I have a clean, unblemished driving record. I had to leave the school bus driving job due to a disability, when I was diagnosed with autism. Autism is a condition that people are born with, it's not something that you catch from some sort of bug. It's a developmental disability that's related to the central nervous system. It affects communication much the same way a hearing loss does.

Recently, my primary doctor cleared me for the DOT physical. He felt that my condition would not have any affect on my ability to drive a commercial vehicle, and this is evidenced by my clear driving record. However, when I saw him most recently he stated that my chances of making it through a job interview would be very slim, if not impossible.

I have looked for employment that's not related to driving, just menial jobs to supplement my Social Security. I was told by one store manager that he WILL NOT hire me for the job I applied for at his store: pushing shopping carts. I also turned in an application for a janitorial job, cleaning a local transit bus terminal. The interviewer told me that he would need to forward the application to the human resources department for a closer examination of my prior job history. I did not hear back from that company.

I have a feeling that my doctor may be having some second thoughts about granting me another physical. But, there is no psychiatric diagnosis that exists and I don't require any medication or treatment for anything related to a psychiatric condition. I have read nothing about people with autism being disqualified for obtaining the DOT medical certificate.

Before I became a bus driver, I once attempted to get an FAA medical certificate so I could get a private pilot's license. Back then, I was diagnosed with major depression and was taking medications for it. The FAA denied me the certificate. However, I recently spoke with an aviation medical examiner, and he said that I would need a letter from a psychiatrist. The letter would be to verify that I don't have a psychiatric diagnosis, and that no treatment or medications are indicated at this time. With that letter, I would stand a 100% chance of passing.

Here's the question: Is it harder to pass the DOT physical than it is to pass the FAA physical? Will I need a letter from a psychiatrist when I go to a REAL examiner to take the DOT physical exam? With an autism diagnosis, what are my chances of passing the DOT physical when I go see this guy? Any thoughts?

NorfolkSouthern

Is your disability due to your autism or are there other issues?

I have some familial experience with Aspergers, and I would be concerned if you are severe enough to warrant disability. Usually that indicates problems with distractibility and ability to adjust to changes as well as being able to "read" people and interact face-to-face.

I'm also curious because you mentioned that there's no psychiatric diagnosis... which leads me to believe that your disability classification may be other than autism. Usually with autism spectrum disorders, a psychiatric evaluation is necessary for diagnosis. Or, at least that's been my experience.

I know my questions sound somewhat confrontational, but please believe me when I say they aren't. It's just that what you're telling me and what I've experienced are somewhat different... and I find that interesting enough to follow up with some questions. It's just my blasted nature, I guess...

__________________

I really feel for you, NorfolkSouthern. From what you are posting, it sort of sounds like maybe you should not get your heart set on being a commercial driver.

I wish you the best of luck with your life. I mean this. But I find it hard to believe that anybody would hire you for a commercial driving position.

__________________
Quote from Ben Franklin:

Mainly the autism. I am hard of hearing, but have always passed the hearing portion of the physical, aided.

There is no problem with distractions while driving. I had a clear driving record when driving a school bus, and it remains that way today. However, the face-to-face communications with co-workers is essentially what caused my downfall: They were unwilling to accept my limitations in non-verbal communications and subtle body language. And yes, I often get misunderstood by others too.

Aside from the driving, the non-verbal communications alone has caused severe problems when I used to work on a floor crew for a janitorial company. This caused me to switch to driving as an occupation after the permanent loss of that job. I took the Social Security because all of my employment options were exhausted after leaving the school bus position.

Autism is considered a neurological condition. Although psychiatrists often diagnose it, it is considered as genetic in nature. I was not diagnosed until after a thorough review of school records and interviews with people who knew me during my childhood, including parents.

A part of the reason for bringing this up on the board, is to educate the public. It would be very helpful for others on the autism spectrum to understand some of the obstacles they will likely face when choosing an industry to get into. While I am not expecting to work again, I also don't want to give up on the possibility. Unlikely, yes. But it could happen. And if it does, then I can explain to others how I was able to qualify for a driving position. Many people with autism are very safe and excellent drivers, yet they often get overlooked by the system. They frequently suffer from lack of accommodation by employers.

Big Don: I truly appreciate your thoughts. I would rather that people be realistic, than just tell me stuff I want to hear. That way, I don't end up spending a significant amount of time and resources, only to end up with nothing for my efforts.

NorfolkSouthern

To be honest, I'm mostly interested in steam and early Electric. What I wouldn't give for more room. Just can't get even one in the garage, and the back yard is only .2 acre - barely enough room for the dogs.

I can understand why a victim of Asperger's might be barred from driving commercially, since a primary symptom is clumsy/uncoordinated gross motor skills. I'd think that would translate into difficulty driving.

But, from what I'm reading, Asperger's is a subset of the overall "Autism Spectrum Disorders". Just as 'common' Autism is. But common Autism doesn't manifest as problems with motor skills or reasoning. It's primarily a communication and repetative behaviour issue. (yes, you know this already, but I doubt most of the others in here do).

If you think the Doc may not sign off on you, ask why not. (If he's a GP, he may not know enough about Autism to fee comfy - see if you can get a neurologist to do it)

You have some very good concerns, there. I don't know jack about intermodal facilities - how much they pay, etc. Nada. I do know that a fair number of places have yard jockeys - just shuttle trailers around from point A to point B on the property. It might well be an option, but I'll have to leave any comments on that to somebody who knows.

You can also look into being a 'casual' driver - work a day here, a day there.. enough for pizza money, but not enough to damage your benefits. And would help a lot with self esteem, I bet.