Originally Posted by revelation1911

Very good post and this is the point I was trying to make. I used the pry method when I was working on trucks daily.
I was trying point out to the posters that were stating it's the drivers fault and it's not, unless the adjustments were really out.
After all the years working on trucks I found that a normal 10psi drop indicated good brakes on application as a rule.
and the 1 1/2 turn on manuals generally was good. The point here is we need to stick together as drivers instead of pointing like girls.
These comapnies, shippers and dot folks are all in our pockets. A company fine of 400.00 for a brake adjustemnt is ridiculous I'm on the original posters side on this one.

I don't know about other States, but I have been asked by CA (coop inspectors) if our company has the Company Responsibility form on file....and on this form, there are 3 levels (options) for the company to take responsibility; (1) mechanical, (2) electrical, and (3) weight. If the company does not have this form of accepting responsibility on file, the responsibility falls on the driver. And without this "responsibility form", the citation (assuming something is out of whack) names the driver being the one cited.

As to the actual "stroke travel"...no I don't get under and inspect the travel distance every inspection...however, before I pull out of the parking area (every time), I do a tug/brake test, then a rolling brake check...if the brakes feel soft/mushy then I will check for adjustment (using the pry method) and adjust accordingly. Here, (US) a driver is not required to be "certified" through DMV but every company I have worked for has (as part of the orientation) given a brake training section, and a company card for completion is given to the driver.

Now...why did you have to throw in this mix the never ending debate issue of the 15 minute inspection? Just trying to "muddy the waters".....ain't ya?!?

Originally Posted by CondoCruiser

This is a topic of debate. Any driver that gets a fine as a direct result of their negligence ought to man up and pay the ticket. From the legal side, if a ticket is made out to the company, they are responsible. Just like what happened, they will pull you in a back room and try to get you to sign a promissory note. Don't sign and your employment will end one way or another.

When I got that Pawtucket bridge fine for $5000, I was the 4th driver from the company to get one. All the other drivers quit. I paid the ticket which was knocked in half. I tried to get the company to accept 50% responsibility since they routed me that way but it didn't fly. But they forced me to sign an agreement or lose my job.

By law, any driver can not be coerced into signing a promissory note. I could go back and sue, but I'm not going there.

The reason why your ticket was $5000 was because so many of your companies' drivers got nailed. Same with us. I pointed out to the safety guy that not one of the loads we take up there require we take 95 straight up, rather go over to 495, as it's a bit quicker. And more direct.

Originally Posted by DaltonR121

So I'll get right to the point. The company I work for believes that if you get a ticket of ANY sort, that you should have to pay it. I don't mind paying a ticket that is a direct result of my actions such as speeding or a log book violation but another driver got a ticket for a slack being out of adjustment...

Unfortunately, this is the result of the CSA, since both companies and drivers played this game of who did what, now both get hit with points, BUT the ticket/fine still gets put on the driver as they are the person responsible for making sure the vehicle is safe BEFORE driving it. If you know of a condition that exists before driving it, you are required to document it and get it repaired before driving it. Key word here you need to understand, DOCUMENT. If there will be a saving clause for you, it's this.

and they fired him for not signing a paper that gave them permission to take 400 dollars out of his check for this ticket.

This may be illegal, however he made his choice and I would agree with others, he may have done himself a favor by getting fired.

I firmly believe that I am not an owner/operator and I shouldn't have to pay for the company's faulty equipment.

I agree completely.

If you refuse to use the equipment because of something you find in your Pretrip, truck drivers are a dime a dozen. If you refuse to drive it, someone else will.

Ahh here is the pivot point that Company Drivers need to understand, but have refused to accept. If they refuse to fix it, you are legally required not to drive it. It's that simple. Until company drivers get this through their head, nothing will change. You are responsible, so act responsibly. If that means quitting a company that you have to fight to get to fix their equipment, then you and the industry at large will be better off.

Since as you say "truck drivers are a dime a dozen", then why freak? It's easier to get another job with a clean record, than to explain why you didn't leave while your record was being trashed by a company that believes that mantra. If drivers don't raise themselves above the "dime a dozen" mentality, how can you expect employers to?

Is there a law somewhere about who is obligated to pay tickets?

Now, here is where we can get into the meat of the subject. If you have documented REGULARLY through pre-trip inspections, post-trip inspections, etc, and note that "company refused to fix" you MAY have helped yourself during inspection. The post-trip is documentation required of the driver. The company must......

Before dispatching the vehicle again, a carrier shall
ensure that a certification has been made as to any
defect or deficiency, that they have been corrected, or
state those deficiencies that do not require immediate
correction. Carriers must keep the original post-trip
inspection report and the certification of repairs for
at least three months from the date of preparation.

396.11 FMCSA Regulations

If you do your job, and they don't do theirs, who do you call? Well, there happens to be an FMCSA Safety Violation complaint website for drivers to complain about their company. This link will show that: http://nccdb.fmcsa.dot.gov/HomePage.asp

This is the description that you see when going to that page with a 1 888 number, in case the links don't work.

Complaints regarding Passenger Carrier violations, Commercial Motor Vehicle safety violations, Household Goods Consumer Protection violations or Hazardous Materials violations can be reported on line using the links below or if you prefer you can use the toll free hotline 1 888-DOT-SAFT (1-888-368-7238 ), available from 9:00 AM to 7:00 PM, Monday through Friday Eastern Time.

- FMCSA National Consumer Complaint Database website

I hope this helps someone. I know it's rather long, but this is a subject that is near and dear to my heart. CSA = Compliance, Safety and Accountability. This program is the best chance that drivers have of improving their lot. Bad companies can be weeded out. Bad drivers can be weeded out. Good companies and good drivers can benefit from doing their job, while those that don't deserve it won't.

As drivers, CSA is our friend. It can help put clout behind the driver's word. It can improve our working conditions and income by getting rid of the destructive elements.

But for that to happen, drivers MUST learn their FMCSA regs, do their job, and demand others do theirs. This will help you also not feel helpless. It empowers you. Stop being victims.

Good Luck