I know this is more of an OTR than LTL forum but I can't believe some of the stuff I've read about these OTR outfits here. You paying them??? Over idle, minor accident, tuition contracts?? C'mon..

This is geared to you folks that have a year or more in and want a better way.

A little about me, I have a little over 7 years driving now at 28, I did a hair less than two years OTR, and have been at the LTL carrier Con-way Freight for a little over 5 1/2 years now.

In no way, shape, or form am I trying to rub anything in but job wise, there is no comparison between an LTL and OTR job. I understand LTL is not for everyone but for those that want to be home nightly and make a successful career out of this POS industry LTL or parcel is the way to go. 45 -70 K a year as a P&D driver or 60 - 105K as a line driver with good bennies and home everyday as the norm.

I did the OTR thing and figured out that I spent more time un-compensated as an OTR driver 60 - 70 hours per week when you consider waiting and sleeping away from home, than I currently work for compensation (60 hr book at old CCX) and make exactly twice as much per year as a line driver at Con-way.

I bring this up for two reasons..

1. If someone would have told me this 7 years ago I would have never worked OTR. I would have done whatever I needed to do to get on with a big-boy LTL like UPSF (Overnite then) , FedEx, or Con-way. Work a local job for beans or whatever to get on with one of these outfits.

2. I hear a lot of BS on 19 about these companies. For whatever reason, UPSF/Parcel seems to be the one. Folks, I would trade my 5 1/2 at Con-way for either in a heartbeat. Those may be the two best jobs on the road.

All of us LTL hands swear our companies stink and are only out to get us but when you come down to it, turnover for drivers with bids (1-4 years depending on company and terminal) is next to zero.

Some LTL's are hiring right now. UPSF (low starting wage but great pay off in the end), Estes, Con-way, and R&L (heard mixed things about R&L).

Good luck.. Stay safe out there everyone..

UPS freight AKA overnite here

been a casual dockworker for almost a year, $10.50 an hour

im in CDL school right now....1 week down, 2 weeks to go

right now the city drivers who have been there atleast 3 years make $22.85 an hour, good benefits

the road (linehaul) drivers make about 57 cents a mile


the contract expires in 2013....city drivers pay will be $26.15 an hour, and road driver pay will be around 67 cents a mile

benefits are good, strong company to work for, strong teamster contract in my opinion.....

at my CDL school im the only LTL guy there out of about 20.....most guys are from other industries and are signing on to make 24 cents a mile at USA truck to go over the road....they think they will get unlimited miles and from what i read on this site and others like it, it sounds like they might be struggling to even get enough loads to feed themselves

after i get my CDL and get a bid to be a city driver or yard jockey full time i will literally double hourly wage in 2 years time

we are right next to an old dominion and an estes...i hear they are both hiring, and both pay dockworkers much better

which is tempting....but im stickin out this $10.50 an hour thing til i can become a driver and make the real money

I would stick it out there. I'm not sure how the bid process at UPSF works as far as switching between city and road, but at .67 that will be a $110,000 - $125,000 a year gig. .555 at Con-way had drivers in the mid 90's for 2008.

Stick it out man..

I just saw you're only 20. I started at Con-way at 22 and can tell you, you will have nobody above you on the board even close to your age. Most people at LTL's don't get established till they are much older. Dude, you have it by the short ones. I'm now 28 with a good amount of seniority.

UPSF here,....I wish I would have moved into the ltl sector long ago,...Just started 3 months ago as a p/d driver,..I really like what I do......And consider myself very luck to have been hired on here!!!

i did 5 years otr and then got on with reddaway. i've thought about it and don't think i could do the otr thing again....

10-4. I ran the same P&D run for almost 4 years till January when I decided to run some PM line for the money (I'm single also). I was lucky that I did not spend much time on the xtra board. In my opinion, LTL P&D is the absolute best job in trucking once you get a consistent route. Good luck Walleye. You have a great gig at a great company. You should be moving on up in no time..

No, i agree and i will probably move back to LTL after i get this OTR "adventure thing" out of my system.

i had worked for Overnite, NEMF, and FedEx freight and i can say that these were basically the best gigs i had. Mainly due to the steady schedules, sleeping in your own bed everynight/day. But also, they were/are very organized with solid benefits. The pay is also comparable to any OTR gig.

There was one OTR gig i had that equaled or exceeded the average LTL gig, but this was a specialized carrier.

But i have a question or 2 for you:
i thought with conway freight, you have to load your own trlrs, then drive to the next terminal, then unload them both and then load a new set then drive back to your home terminal?

From prior experience with R & L Carriers, I would personally put them at the bottom of the list. A shiny exterior and they profess to be driver oriented but when push comes to shove they are not. Don't have an accident while you're employed and if you get hurt don't file for workers comp because they will fight it and you will be unemployed. This was my experience with them. Things may have changed but it's doubtful.

__________________
You have to do what you love to do, not get stuck in that comfort zone of a regular job.
Life is not a dress rehearsal. This is it...
Lucinda Basset

At Con-way Freight it varies by run, seniority, and cut time. AM line haul consists of all meet and turns - this is the "holy grail" of LTL. The big boys run these. My terminal has the most junior guy's I've heard of running days and they have 12-15 years. 20+ is the norm at most barns.

I run PM line which you are referring to. Kinda true, kinda not. You will work the dock as a line driver here. I'll give you 2 general scenarios.

The first is the long 500+ mile night runs. I'll use the one I ran till last week as an example - Newburgh, NY. We come from central Pa with all the Northeast freight that the day-line drivers brought back from the day turns in Ohio. My barn runs about 15 guys to Newburgh nightly (Newark and Carlstadt, NJ are the other long ones). If you're one of the first 3-5 you work the dock for about 2 hours and turn. These drivers run 5. 2600 miles per week with another 20+ hours on the clock - these are 90K drivers. The rest have to work the dock till the end of the hub and can only run 4. 2080 on the miles with 30+ hours on the clock. These are 80K drivers. Both home every day. When you return back to you terminal, you fuel the truck and split the set if need be. If you have city freight for our terminal you put it to the dock.

The second is the shorter run which I'm on now. I'm the first one out since the guy's that had it are now on day-line. It's only 316 round trip. I work the dock at the destination for up to 6 hours. It's one way you make cash on a shorter run. The other way is what I typically do - after about 2 hours on the dock I go to the office and see who is over trailers. Since I have a shorter run in the Northeast where there is a heavy density of terminals I can cover them. I might go to Baltimore, Wilkes Barre, or say Winchester, Va to gain xtra miles. Can't beat it. Average about 450 miles per night and 4 hours on the clock. 78-82K (that figures in the 5% cut which I say we get back and then some) depending how the rest of the year goes.

The dock work at Con-way is part of the gig but most of us view it as a way to hit the number we want to make. I'll work an extra trailer before I depart on my via to ensure I make $350 that night. For me, these average 12 hour nights. The long ones average 4 13.5 hour $400 nights and one 6-8 hour 150-170 night. The five long runs get about $385-395 5 nights per week.

In terms of working conditions on line-haul, I would say FedEx and UPSF have it a little better but we gross a little more..

Considering working conditions and pay I would rank the LTL's this way..

I'm an LTL for life too..

1. UPS.. Parcel or Freight, they are the clear #1. UPSF line-haul will make .67 per mile.. That is a $120,000 per year gig.

2. ABF.. Never hear a bad word.

3. Con-way Freight.. We are booming right now. Give us back the 5% which I believe they will, and then some, we are a clear #2 to UPS. The 5% plus a little more puts us over $100,000.

4. FedEx Freight.. Better line-haul working conditions than Con-way with a little less gross pay. Great place to work if you have a little time in..

5. Old Dominion.. Hair less money - happier drivers.

6. Estes.. Company in good position.. No OT though..

7. R&L.. Hear good and bad.. For someone who wants to be home this still beats the best OTR job..


I'm neither pro or anti-union and that is how I rank them. There are a few OTR jobs I would consider but they are the real elite jobs. There is no irregular route OTR carrier that comes close to the top 7 I listed when it comes to pay, bennies, and working conditions. Wal-Mart is the only one. They are a little different than any other gig and I don't know where they would fit.. Under any UPS though...