There should be a law... rates on load boards

[Autocar]

Apples and hot dogs. That is contract freight. You should get 100% of FSC.

And a lot more of the LH but that is a different topic.

Farm2Fleet Trucking

Not trying to change the subject, Bill, but all loads to LS BCOs pay us FSC, even if it is a spot bid load with no surcharge in the broker's rate confirmation with the booking Agent. The Agents will still breakout a surcharge, based on the week's listing, from the gross and give it to the truck. Then any accessorials are split out and the rest (linehaul) is split up per contract percentages.

[chalupa]

Why? It is spot market. If you agree on $700 to haul a load what is the difference if they have $500 line haul, $200 FSC vs. $700 line haul?

Quiz time (and my drivers can't answer this) - On a spot market load, why do you not want FSC split out on the load?

Because Bill, In my arena the FSC is a flat 33%. My competitors collect the FSC and pocket the difference which boosts their bottom line, I don't get too, I only get the fuel I burn to do the task. Apples to apples we don't burn all the alloted fuel for each move.

The point of my comment is my carrier keeps this excess. I say that's wrong. I say that's my money.

And NO, I can't pull my lease....right now.


I dunno on your question either........ affects the advance ? Tax implications?

[BigBadBill]

Because Bill, In my arena the FSC is a flat 33%. My competitors collect the FSC and pocket the difference which boosts their bottom line, I don't get too, I only get the fuel I burn to do the task. Apples to apples we don't burn all the alloted fuel for each move.

The point of my comment is my carrier keeps this excess. I say that's wrong. I say that's my money.

And NO, I can't pull my lease....right now.


I dunno on your question either........ affects the advance ? Tax implications?

Sounds like your issues is more of a contractual deal with your carrier. Free market should prevail. At some point you can pull your lease and they lose out.

Regarding the question: When a broker doesn't always split out FSC you can negotiate a higher rate when fuel goes up. "Last time I pulled this fuel was at $3.70 now it is at $4. I need an extra $25 to move it." Now you got the extra. Fuel goes down. Still have the extra. Fuel goes back up and same story. I had two van loads I pulled on a semi regular basis that worked up 10 and 13%. But it also works when you get a load when fuel is up. Once it goes down you stick firm on your rate.

But will admit this is really more relevant to people in the early stages on being independent. Once established do you really want to still be working with brokers that you have to play games with?

[SHC]

Sounds like your issues is more of a contractual deal with your carrier. Free market should prevail. At some point you can pull your lease and they lose out.

Regarding the question: When a broker doesn't always split out FSC you can negotiate a higher rate when fuel goes up. "Last time I pulled this fuel was at $3.70 now it is at $4. I need an extra $25 to move it." Now you got the extra. Fuel goes down. Still have the extra. Fuel goes back up and same story. I had two van loads I pulled on a semi regular basis that worked up 10 and 13%. But it also works when you get a load when fuel is up. Once it goes down you stick firm on your rate.

But will admit this is really more relevant to people in the early stages on being independent. Once established do you really want to still be working with brokers that you have to play games with?

Better yet, why even bother with a broker. Get the direct freight and then YOU name the price...... but then they will hold you to that rate for the term of the contract weither fuel goes up or down. But by getting the loads directly, you should be making more than you would thru a broker anyways wouldn't you???

I could have set-up 2 accounts directly already, but instead I hooked the shipper up with an agent I like at LS and so far things have been good for them both. In fact, the agent just sent me a "hunters" fee last week. Not bad, plus I get pick of the loads when they come available

[rollin coal]

Better yet, why even bother with a broker. Get the direct freight and then YOU name the price...... but then they will hold you to that rate for the term of the contract weither fuel goes up or down. But by getting the loads directly, you should be making more than you would thru a broker anyways wouldn't you???

I could have set-up 2 accounts directly already, but instead I hooked the shipper up with an agent I like at LS and so far things have been good for them both. In fact, the agent just sent me a "hunters" fee last week. Not bad, plus I get pick of the loads when they come available

For the majority of spot yes. But it doesn't hold true all of the time. I'd be surprised if anyone on here with direct dry van is getting anywhere near the rates I'm getting from spot. Maybe some stepdeck guys running spot, and very few of those at that.

I could ask for a break out of a fuel surcharge on every single load I booked if I wanted to. I don;t do it out of courtesy to Bill and his company. He takes such a small percentage compared to the average company a person could lease on with. What he makes could be multiplied by 3 to 5 is what your average trucking company makes off of their leased operators. I do get 100% of detention pay and other accesorials. I've had several weeks where detention alone was almost $1,000 he really didn;t make much at all off my truck on those weeks. I'm also not having any trouble feeling out rates and having a bottom dollar on any given load that never rises or falls based on the price of fuel. My rate is what it is regardless of what fuel is doing.

[2hellandback]

less regulation sounds kind of fun. I'm not too sure you fellas would really like to go truck in countries with few regulations though. Like Afghanistan, Mexico, Sudan, i dunno what are some other countries with few regulations ?

but maybe you're right no need for a law, if there was just a couple load boards who would require a posted rate I would be inclined to use it more. I can say that. Personally, I don't mess with the loadboards much. I find it frustrating and inefficient when I do.

Now what good would posting a rate by the broker Be, you know that they will post way less than there willing to pay anyway in the hope that one of those many idiots out there will take it.

I do look at list price on loads , this shows me some loads that they are more desperate to get loaded due to lack of trucks or a truck falling out or just not showing up.

Posted pay also i believe ,will show an area that trucks are in short supply if there are a lot of price postings.
If every broker had to post a price this for me would be harder to spot high demand areas.

[windsmith]

Now what good would posting a rate by the broker Be, you know that they will post way less than there willing to pay anyway in the hope that one of those many idiots out there will take it.

Experience gained during my few weeks of dealing with brokers tells me that they're holding 30%. If they post a rate, then I know how much negotiating room they have.

[windsmith]

Posted pay also i believe ,will show an area that trucks are in short supply if there are a lot of price postings.
If every broker had to post a price this for me would be harder to spot high demand areas.

Average cpm would then be higher in high demand areas. But I see your point.

[truckerjc]

thanks dice

[cpape]

The spot market is great for independents and small carriers in the current environment of relatively tight supply of trucks. In 08 & 09 it was a different story. In fact, those 2 years are a big reason things are better now. Lots of people in the spot market went belly up. That capacity didn't come back. The remaining truckers are doing well...at least until the money is good enough to encourage others to enter the market. Which enevitably will occur. Then rates will go down. Hopefully, all of you are planning for that day. Trucking is very close to a pure market economy.

With 50 trucks we need more volume than the spot market can provide. We have to have contracts with shippers. In the current environment, you try to push rates up knowing that there will be a dip and they will try to push them back down.

In my opinion, the key is differentiating yourself from the competition. This is true whether you are a broker, independent, BCO for Landstar, small carrier, or mega carrier. Michael Gerdin from Heartland said he likes to take on the most difficult lanes his customers have to offer. Show them some value in working with you instead of the next trucker. Fail to do this and you are always playing the price game.

I have to agree with Bill's negotiation strategy. Always get them to show their hand first. You can always tell them they are $200 too low. If you come with your rate first, they will be laughing all the way to the bank. I just explained that to my younger brother the other day.

National FSC is a bad idea. First, it is irrelevant because the cheap shippers/brokers will adjust the linehaul rate down. Second, it protects the weak. If you don't have enough clout with your shipper/broker to get the proper payment for your services, I want you out of business. Just makes my job that much easier. We should all be striving for less regulation, not more.