No starter signal to relay on 98 8100 4x2 with Cummins

Discussion in 'International Forum' started by pcdoc2001, May 2, 2012.

  1. pcdoc2001

    pcdoc2001 Bobtail Member

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    May 2, 2012
    Westmoreland, Tn
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    All of my bosses trucks that run are older than all of my kids. We have a 1998 in the field prettier than anything in our fleet! (75 trucks) The truck is an International 8100 with a Cummins but I cant tell what size it is because it does not have the N11 or N14 embems like most of our other trucks have but this is one clean truck! I pulled the starter and rebuilt it flushed the tanks, pump and filters and heard it run! I have no signal to the starter relay but if I add voltage to the pink wire at the firewall which goes up to the starter relay the starter works. I cant find this wire inside of the truck. I would LOVE to get a wiring diagram of the truck so that I can put a driver into this truck and keep ME employed. I am a Porsche tech new to trucks and new to Tennessee and jobs are hard to come by here. Any help would be appreciated. Joe
     
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  3. Heavyd

    Heavyd Road Train Member

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    Basically check for power at the pink wire coming out of the key switch in the start position. I am showing a starter push button too, so you would be pushing the button at the same time turning the key. The push button should be on the other side of the steering column, along the bottom of the dash. After that the pink wire is a straight shot to the firewall connector. I know finding and tracing the wire can be fun, you might be better off to run a new wire if everything else is checking out ok. The engine you have in there should be a Cummins ISM.
     
  4. pcdoc2001

    pcdoc2001 Bobtail Member

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    May 2, 2012
    Westmoreland, Tn
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    there is another relay on the passenger side of the truck where the glovebox would be if it had one. This relay is called the crank relay and it has the 17f wire located on the 30 pin or activated pin on the relay. There is another pink wire, (17 not 17f) at the 86 pin and two purple wires on on the 87 terminal and one on the 85 terminal. Without a diagram I pulled the fusebox down and there is a purple wire on the alarm relay but I haven't had a chance to see if this wire is going to the cranking relay or not. because removing the relay and adding power to the 17f wire turns the truck over I need to find out how to get power to the the puple wire at terminal 87 on the relay. I looked for clutch and brake switches but so far nothing. Thanks for your help I am one who always finishes my projects so I will find this problem and will come away with a better understanding of these trucks ecm systems.
     
  5. pcdoc2001

    pcdoc2001 Bobtail Member

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    May 2, 2012
    Westmoreland, Tn
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    I did see that button on the dash and I tried hitting it but not while turning the key. I will try that in the morning with all of the relays in place and see what happens. Thanks for your input
     
  6. Heavyd

    Heavyd Road Train Member

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    Internationals servers are down right now, so I can't recheck. With a Cummins engine the diagram didn't show any other relays, but this is also the same time period when they were changing from book to online diagrams. There were diagrams with crank inhibit relays, but they were for trucks spec'd with smaller International engines. Does this truck have an automatic transmission? Also, I think I had a brain fart about the push button, you should just need the key in the ignition position and hit the button, but try turning the key too in case something has been rewired over the course of time! When you jump the starter, does the engine run ok?
    P.S. Welcome to trucks!
     
  7. pcdoc2001

    pcdoc2001 Bobtail Member

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    May 2, 2012
    Westmoreland, Tn
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    No, the only time I heard the engine running there were a lot of jumper wires involved and a lot of wires disconnected for safety. after reconnecting the power wires to the injection pump I have not heard the ngine run. this is not to say it doesn't just to say that when I jump the starter with the wires all connected it does not start. It just turns over. I heard the engine run by spraying diesel with a bug sprayer to make sure I wasn't flogging a dead pony. I am more used to the older Mercedes auto diesels so I just cleaned everything from the tanks to the injectors but I believe that once I get rid of the air that the engine would run if I could get voltages to the right spots. (Theory at this point) That's why I'm not just running a button to the pink 17f wire. The wire SHOULD be live from the key so that it can be driven by ANYBODY without special training or instructions. LOL Thanks for the welcome to trucking I do miss Alldata and Mitchell On-Demand.
     
  8. Heavyd

    Heavyd Road Train Member

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    Some of these models you have to depress the clutch pedal for it to crank too.
     
  9. pcdoc2001

    pcdoc2001 Bobtail Member

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    May 2, 2012
    Westmoreland, Tn
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    There is no clutch switch but we keep trying with the clutch and the brake depressed, the seat belt on, the passenger sealt belt on, ( I once spent 2 hours at the store with a corvette until I seat belted my 2 twelve packs) I tried all of this because the alarm relay has wiring that connects to the crank relay. I would love to get a wiring diagram, (man do I wish Alldata or Michell had truck info).
     
  10. Heavyd

    Heavyd Road Train Member

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    Ok, here is the best I can do with diagrams. Cranking1 is with a Cummins, Cranking2 is with an International engine. Since you found crank related relays on the right dash section you are looking at cranking2, so your engine should be an International engine. If it is, this will complicate matters because the ECM is what allows cranking to take place. If the ECM isn't booting up you have other problems. Are you sure it is a Cummins? Cummins are black and International are mostly blue. If you have the last 8 digits from the VIN I can tell you what it was built with.
     

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  11. Heavyd

    Heavyd Road Train Member

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    How are you making out?
     
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