Bought a used 2011 Durastar 4300 with the Maxxforce DT in March of 2014.
150,000 KM's (93,000 miles) and 4100 hours on it now.
Last couple oil changes I have sent in a sample and they have both come back high sodium levels.
Oil tests negative for glycol and finning is saying sodium is produced by combustion of antifreeze.
Have been buying my coolant from the International dealer and they tell me the coolant has no silicates in it.
EGR valve has been replaced as well as ICP valve but samples keep coming back with high sodium levels.
I have to replace anywhere from 200ml to 1L (8 to 33 .oz) of coolant per 10 hour day since my first day operating the truck. All though some days I don't have to replace any.
Can someone please tell me where the high sodium levels may be coming from or where my coolant may be going?
Thanks for any help you can give.
Sodium in Engine Oil
Discussion in 'International Forum' started by J. Graham Contracting, Nov 20, 2014.
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Last edited: Nov 21, 2014
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Sodium with potassium is antifreeze from what I hear ... Not sure who is doing your testing you may want to try a different lab seeing as how your losing antifreeze as well
W923 and J. Graham Contracting Thank this. -
I had high sodium in a sample a few years ago. It was a one off bad sample that cleaned up the next time. One thing I thought of at the time the sample was taken in the winter after being in some road salt. I suppose sodium chloride is not the same as sodium in the sample? I thought maybe the sample was contaminated when I took it as it drained but that was just a,wild guess. 2 samples in a row would have me a little concerned. Anyway I clean that drain plug area with brake parts cleaner really well anymore before sampling now.
J. Graham Contracting Thanks this. -
you have head gasket of oil cooler leak
dilution of oil will cause more internal problems
as antifreeze doesnt have lubrication abilities of oilJ. Graham Contracting Thanks this. -
EGR cooler.
Lucar and J. Graham Contracting Thank this. -
Heavyd is right probably definitely egr cooler that will cause high sodium levels
J. Graham Contracting Thanks this. -
Before anyone gets too worried over mechanical issues, check the oil itself. The brand wasn't mentioned, but many brands are going to higher sodium levels in the oil itself for various reasons, mostly for meeting design requirements centered around the emissions stuff. This is why you should ALWAYS send in a virgin oil sample, straight from the jug, to the lab to get a baseline on what the oil additive components are. Shell, for one, has been increasing the sodium makeup of it's oils for the last few years. It started with the PCMO gas engine varieties, and is moving the same way with their HDEO oils. Sodium is both an additive and a contaminate. You just have to find out which source your higher sodium is. I would check the oil itself first before tearing things apart. Send in a sample of fresh oil out of a jug you are using and see what the levels are on the report.
With the lack of the used oil sample showing any glycol, and if the wear metal numbers are not rising considerably, I wold suspect that the oil itself might have had the additive package changed. If there was actual coolant getting in there, you would see spikes in wear metals also. You just can't introduce coolant into the engine oil and not have accelerated wear going on. Chromium, lead, tin, iron, copper, and other metals should also show higher levels than normal if coolant in oil was the factor.
But replacing coolant as the OP is doing, is not a good sign. But it may not be the culprit here. Coolant can leak all sorts of places that have nothing to do with getting in the oil.DetroitDudeBro and J. Graham Contracting Thank this. -
Thanks for the replies everyone.
I am buying the sample kit from my local international shop but the results come back from Finning labs.
I am using Shell Rotella 15W40, not synthetic just plain old oil.
I have done 3 oil changes since buying the truck in March of this year. Last two changes I sent in used sample. I was thinking of sending virgin sample as well just to rule out high sodium levels as Cowpie suggested.
I will make sure drainplug is very clean next time I sample but I have a hard time believing that can be the source, but I am definitely going to see if it makes a difference.
Cranky: would a head gasket or oil cooler leak show glycol in engine oil sample? Test results are coming back negative for glycol in oil.
HeavyD: I asked the mechanic at the shop if it could be my EGR cooler and he says he has never seen one leak a little bit, they usually dump all the coolant right through it. Also, apparently EGR cooler was just replaced before I bought the truck. Not sure how I should proceed from here on that point.
I am also getting the check engine light on, not sure if that has anything to do with replacing coolant every day.
Thanks for the help everyone. -
Yes, EGR coolers can certainly leak just minor amount. If you are constantly adding coolant and there are no external leaks, then engine must be burning it.
W923 Thanks this. -
OK, so if it was a head gasket, cracked cylinder head, or oil cooler leak I would see glycol in oil sample? Or maybe oil in coolant tank?
Not a mechanic so just want to make sure I understand
When I first got the truck I took it into the shop and told them I was losing coolant somewhere and they told me the EGR cooler was fine and in fact it had just been replaced. They did say they tested my rad cap and it was leaking so I bought the International $40 rad cap but still had to replace coolant every day since. This was in March of this year. I have been adding every day since.
Is there a way that I can check or test the EGR cooler myself or can you recommend somewhere I can purchase a manual outlining the procedures?
Then at least I could feel confident going back to the mechanic and saying yes I really feel its my cooler leaking and maybe I might still be able to get it under warranty. They haven't seemed too keen on changing it up to this point.
I think I read somewhere on this forum about looking inside it for coolant but I have no idea where I would start taking it apart.
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