My 1st lease with PRIME

Discussion in 'Lease Purchase Trucking Forum' started by SupertruckerJK, Sep 30, 2014.

  1. ironpony

    ironpony Road Train Member

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    Well that makes a bit more sense, but the linehaul rate is only a part of the compensation... it should always be accompanied by the fuel surcharge especially when you're dealing with contract rates. The spot market rates reflect both parts for one-time loads. Prime takes their cut from the linehaul portion only, and passes on the fuel surcharge. Posting my net really doesn't do much for you because there are so many variables that go into a given weeks settlement: region of the country you're in, time of year, weather, solo or team freight to name a few. Plus I've been here long enough to have a very high driver rating which influences the freight I have access to, plus longevity. YTD, I'm at $1.89 gross for all miles loaded and empty on the average.

    The net figure really wouldn't be much use because it reflects ones skills at containing costs, buying fuel, luck with repairs, how much time off you take, etc. Plus I don't have a lease payment, but rather a truck payment which is considerably less. That also means my fixed costs are different as well, for example I don't fund a mileage escrow. This year my net was influenced greatly in the 1st quarter by very high fuel costs... my machine doesn't like very cold weather (getting a winter front put on in another month) so there's that.

    Because I work from a total figure for gross revenue per load, what I do is look at the gross revenue per day I need to cover my costs. That's not hard to do since everything is billed weekly on my settlement. Divide by seven, add it all up including a number for my salary (it's a cost) and taxes - voila! I have a minimum number I need to reach on a daily basis to run the company. As long as my gross revenue per day exceeds that I'm making money. Needless to say I have these numbers because I do my own accounting on a weekly basis, plus I keep a scorecard in my dispatch book that I can use to see where I stand on any given day of the week, and what I need to achieve to meet my weekly revenue goals.

    Now, you want to know how to evaluate a given lease deal? Find out the key numbers you need from recruiting... average gross revenue for ICs, average miles per year/week/etc, fuel costs and reimbursements, fixed costs that you will encounter (plates, permits, workman's comp or occupational accident insurance, liability insurance, bobtail, etc.) plus variable costs you will encounter. Set this stuff up in a spreadsheet, figure it out per whatever you want (mile, day, etc) and see where the revenue projections land... and whether there's enough cash left over to make it worth your while. Then talk to drivers you encounter at a truck stop, and see if those numbers hold up when you ask them about their experiences. Make sure you write this stuff down, because you will make some key assumptions - fuel prices, fuel surcharge reimbursement levels, your truck's fuel economy, etc - and you'll need to go back and make sure these assumptions were realistic if you decide to jump into one of these deals.

    One other thing... always ask for an example copy of the lease and operating contracts from the recruiters. You'll want to go over these documents in any case to determine if the contracts are something you can live with. If they refuse to provide these documents up front, they're not a business partner you want to be dealing with.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2014
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  3. freightwipper

    freightwipper Road Train Member

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    That is some good advice there, I'm all for asking for proof and documents before doing anything. Even as a company driver, my recruiter told me I'd make .43CPM with less than a year experience I had at the time.. I didn't believe him and ask for paperwork with my pay I sign off on at origination and it surely was there.
    You're numbers sound actually similar to the info at DAT.

    73% of $1.80 for linehaul is about $1.31 then + .50 for fuel surcharge and that's $1.81 so in other words I know Prime is treating people fairy when it comes to pay.
    Anyway can you have any choice in the manner?
    Such as telling Prime you only want the short high paying runs, or keep you in high paying lanes etc etc?
    The lack of control of choosing freight is the only thing that concerns me, if I had a huge truck payment I would want to be viewing boards or at least have some control over what I do.
    Leaving my future up to a company load planner I wouldn't trust as much as myself for example.
     
    Ketchikan baby Thanks this.
  4. ironpony

    ironpony Road Train Member

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    There's no guarantees in any of this wipper. The vast majority of folks who step up fail... more on that in a bit. I'm also not trying to "sell" Prime to anyone, nor will I specifically recommend it to anyone. You have to decide if it's a fit for you. I know a gal who could not make money here for the life of her. She turned in her truck, went to Swift and is doing quite well over there. She'll own her truck in about another year and a half.

    Prime's dispatch system tends to spread the wealth around. Load planners and fleet managers are paid a base salary, but the majority of their compensation is in the form of a commission based on the overall success of the fleets they work with. If the drivers aren't making money, they don't make money. Plus there is a system of fines and bonuses that incentivizes them to make sure EVERYONE is successful- at least as successful as they can manage to be. There is an old saying about leading horses to water. It's still up to them to take the drink...

    When you go empty you hit the bottom of the local dispatch queue... when you get to the top, you're offered the best load that matches your availability, whether you're team or solo, etc- at that moment. The action in the load planners area is so fast that there isn't any time for them to be picking favorites or deciding they don't like someone... SE spent an afternoon over there. You can ask for certain lanes through your FM, but there's no guarantee that on that particular day you'd be getting the "hot load." The way it works out is like the same relationship a mutual fund has to individual stocks. You can hit it big on an individual stock but can also take a dive... whereas a mutual fund spreads the risk around. When you're offered a load you have the option of rejecting it, and going to the bottom of the dispatch queue again. That keeps folks from sitting in the cat bird seat, cherry-picking the best loads. As far as short runs are concerned, I'll ask for them, but there's no guarantee. My FM understands I want shorter loads coming out of Florida where we're stuck with low-paying contract freight, and I'll also work the northeast as much as I can when I'm up there. A majority of my loads have been well over $2 per loaded mile this year, but I get some dogs too... and I'll either accept them or reject them based on my experience, where I am, time of year, etc. I've hit some $10 and $20 per mile loads too, although they don't tend to be very long, but hey, getting $1000 for an afternoon's work running 50 miles is quite satisfying.

    I was listening to KR this last week, and a caller was asking about what he could do to be more successful. He was up to $1.60-somethin' per mile, but his costs were $1.33 per mile. (You've got to be freakin' kiddin'!) Do the math here kiddies... a zero-experience trainee jumping into one of our tiny lightweight trucks is at just about double that to start. This guy was running for SNI on their IC Choice program. Considering their level of "control" he said he was constantly bidding against a couple of thousand other trucks, so there wasn't much "control." But he could pick 'n choose. Seeing the numbers posted in some of their threads here on TTR, I'd say their gross revenue numbers were very average at best... but it might be just the selection of guys posting too.

    OTOH, Mystik posted some numbers, and he looks like he's doing OK... Swift gets a choice between a couple or three loads if they're available. That's great. If you do a little analysis on his numbers, I'd say he's running a lot of miles to get to the finish line over there. I run about 2400-ish a week on the average. That suits me fine. I've had weeks where my gross is nearly $7,000 and I've netted nearly $4,000 of that. Last week I got loads getting me back to the house... where I chose where I wanted to be. I netted $380-something. That's not unusual for when I head back to Denver... the computer is choosing me loads to get there, not what is financially best for my bottom line.

    Control. Can't get much better than working off of Landstar's load board eh? Well it works for some folks. I met a gal last year at one of KRs CMC events. She owned a tractor that was eating her alive in maintenance costs. So she get's rid of it, buys a Peterbilt (hey it's a PB, what can go wrong, right?) and signs on to Landstar. Four months later, she's not only broke, she's into Landstar for well over $4,000 and needs to sell the POS PB because, once again she's got a tractor that's eating her alive in maintenance costs. She's driving a BCO's tractor for something like 50-cpm until she makes enough to pay back what she owes to Landstar. I suggested she goes to work over at Prime on the company side... she's obviously not a business person. She'll make better than $50k easily with benefits... almost guaranteed with no risk. She's not having a bit of it... making real money for some reason is a "step backward" to her.

    You gotta decide what fits you. I can post my settlements on this forum until the day is done... that doesn't mean anyone is going to match my level of success, and they could quite easily go on to do better as well. What everyone does have to understand is that this leasing stuff is really running a business. If you just think it's a paycheck on steroids, and everything will just take care of itself as long as you hammer down... well, there's 80% of folks who end up screwed pretty fast.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2014
  5. MysticHZ

    MysticHZ Road Train Member

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    Oh ... I make no secret of the fact that I run a lot of miles ... but I spend a fair amount of time at home and run as much as I can when I'm out ... We actually have more control over loads. We get loads through different channels.

    First via preplan ... we can get a preplan anytime and can be stacked with preplans ... we are free to accept or reject any preplan for any reason. If we reject a preplan, the big computer in the sky will try to match us up with another preplan.

    Second, at 18 hours before our PTA we can solicit loads, we can be offered up to 3 loads. We can select one or none. After an hour we can repeat the process ... we may get the same loads, we may get a different set of loads.

    Third is the broker program. This not available to everyone. We work directly with the broker. We negotiate an all in flat rate with the broker. We can call the broker anytime and can stack loads. Any and all issues in regards to the load go through the broker ... other than the rate sheet going to Swift, Swift is out of the loop after that, until it's time to collect the bill.
     
  6. freightwipper

    freightwipper Road Train Member

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    Wow what great info, thank for you for sharing.
    When you say.. "you're offered the best load that matches your availability" What is the best load?
    Does it go by load closest to you? Or highest pay per mile including deadhead? How does it choose between a higher paying short run vs longer run?
    What happens when you reject your first load, then what kind of load is offered next? as in will it always be worse than the first one or could it be better paying overall?
    What figures all that? Maybe I don't understand... how does the "computer choosing the loads" figure all that out?
    As much as Prime's % look good and etc just leaving my future and my money up to a computer... I don't know about that.
    I'd rather look at the load board that same computer is and pick my own loads.
    One example is simply.. if I picked my own load.. I wouldn't pick a load headed into an ice storm, that's not a smart idea but a computer I doubt figures that into the equation.
    I guess nothing is perfect Schneiders choice is OKAY but it's 65% and Schneider pays their company drivers garbage so I would trust them having the best loads, at least I know Prime pays their company drivers well.
    There are some people doing well on Choice and some well at Prime, so it's probably simply the way drivers plan themselves and their work ethic.

    As far as Prime goes well 73% is still good considering everything in my opinion.
    I don't know why people could lease with Swift, they pay under $1 a mile plus fuel... so what is that? $1.50 at best?
    You said you're around $1.89 at Prime which I think is good for what it is, certainly better than company place offering flat rate mileage pay.
    If you get a high paying load.. you'd get a % of that vs flat rate mileage driver where the company gets all the extra profits, that doesn't seem fair.

    As far as why people fail, i think a lot of it is on themselves not so much the company.
    If you fail then the company loses a driver.. and drivers are the company itself!
    Sure some companies try to milk the drivers.. some.. well okay most all but I don't see how wanting them to go broke is the best business plan.
    Spending half the day at a truck stop and then driving 73 MPH to make up for it is not a recipe for success.
    Can't tell you how many times I see the same O/O pass me on the road multiple times throughout the day, it's just silly.
    Tell you one thing though, if I ever owned a truck and wanted to lease on or even lease a truck through a company.. I don't know where would be the best place. seems too difficult to figure out, all I know for sure is I'd only do it on % pay.

    Last question that popped into my mind... I see 50 Prime Reefer drivers for every 1 flatbed or tanker.. why is that?
    Any idea how flatbed and tanker drivers leased on are doing?
    Thank you
     
  7. Hollywood68

    Hollywood68 Bobtail Member

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    On your limited catwalk space, check to see if the plates are still on the rear of the fifth wheel slide. I had the same problem and the first time I was bob tail I noticed the plates. They keep the fifth wheel from sliding all the way back. If I remember correctly they're held on with two 11/16 head bolts. I took those out and slid my fifth wheel all the way back. Big difference.
     
  8. Dryver

    Dryver Road Train Member

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    Paccar are really having quality control issues on their new stuff. What gives? I was a KW or PB fan but now they are not on a short list to purchase. No end of reports about mechanical and electrical glitches.
     
  9. ironpony

    ironpony Road Train Member

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    Prime's fleet is fairly large with Freightliner, Peterbilt, KW and International trucks. By far, the most reliable of the mix are the Freightliners.
     
  10. KingG239

    KingG239 Medium Load Member

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    Is there any good reefer loads that go into FL or coming out ?
     
  11. KingG239

    KingG239 Medium Load Member

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    Would it be a better deal if you get a truck that someone turn in..
     
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