I would also like to add, that yes, I know that many terrible things have been done in the name of Christianity and other religions.

When a conservative or fundemental or wacko Christian minister makes some crazy statement, God hates ####, we should kill abortionists, etc., mainstream Christians are out right away to criticize. When a muslim leader makes comments of the like, no other muslim is ever seen attacking it, unless they are also going to add an explanation that is at the same time rationalizing.

Yes it would. However, for some strange reason it is not hard to convince non-muslims that muslims are extremely violent. I wonder why.

And for some strange reason it is not hard to convince non-Christians that Christians are equally violent. I don't wonder why. I read history.

You can see it still going on today. I freely admit that. However, when I was in church this morning, I asked for forgivness, and I prayed for peace.

When muslims pray, they ask allah for the death of my children, the enslavement of women, and the end of personal freedoms. This is the mainstream for them. Christians who think like this are called kooks and ridiculed by Christians and non-christians alike.

I'm sorry, but this is absolutely false. Is it true that SOME Muslims do that? Sure. But they are no more truly Muslims than the so-called Christians you mentioned are truly Christians. A Muslim is one who submits to the will of Allah -- NOT one who imposes his own will upon Allah, or uses the name of Allah to justify his own desires or social and/or political ambitions. The same goes for Christians.

Salam alaikum. Shalom. Peace be upon you. Whatever the language, whatever the religion, it means the same thing.

"May you walk forever in the light of the Spirit; filled with Passion, guided by Reason, in awe of the world which surrounds you."

MommaKay, I hope you are correct. I don't claim my views of muslims to be a divine inspiration, they are the ideas of a very weary human man. I have a close relative, who is special forces. He was in Kuwait, Somalia, and is now in Iraq for time #4(he's close to retirement and said "might as well earn my pension"), he in his long dealings with muslims does not share my view. In my limited dealing with muslims, I have never had a negative experience. However, as all I see is bloodshed and suffering, and would like nothing more than peace, I wonder where these fine muslims are. I turn on the TV and see millions of Americans, protesting our government. I have been a member of Teamsters, NRA, and other organizations, who petition our government, and are vocal and visible when they have a complaint. I don't see this from them. I see only people wanting more war and senseless death.

We may see things differently, but I wish you well, and respect your views.

Generally speaking, we in the West have a drastically different view of the relationship between Government and the Governed than does the Islamic world. In Islam, those in power are viewed to have been placed in power by Allah -- to protest against those leaders is to go directly against the will of Allah. This is an ancient attitude, and is one that is being challenged by many in the Islamic world, but any change from that view will be a long time in coming.

Even the Bible makes a similar claim regarding our rulers: Romans 13:1, for example, says (RSV): "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God." Now in America we have a very different view of our Government, and few of us, if any, would take that verse at face value. But we have fought long and bloody wars over the issue of "The Divine Right of Kings," and in the United States we have instituted a separation between church and State.

I do not know if the Islamic world will ever follow the same path. I can hope they do, Inah'Allah. But there's the rub, eh? "If it is God's Will."

It is also difficult, in my opinion, to get a proper view of Islam as viewed through the eyes of an occupying Army in Islamic lands. For that matter, it may also be difficult to get a proper view of Islam through the eyes of those Muslims living in said occupied land. But Allah gave oil in vast quantities to many Islamic countries, and unfortunately we covet that oil. If only the Christian world would remember the commandment, "Thou shalt not covet..." perhaps this conflict could end peacefully.

Yep, our dependance on oil causes lots of problems. Funny we covet their oil, yet by some estimates there is a huge amount of the stuff sitting all over the USA, including under the 120 miles of blue water seperating you and I. If not willing to use our own, maybe we should learn to not use it.

One other thing from your reply, I don't know if you read my post correctly, but my relative does not have a definite negative view of islam at all.

It would be nice, wouldn't it? But we're so used to having virtually unlimited resources to draw upon, including on-demand access to Middle Eastern oil...

I don't know. Research I was doing today came up with a figure of about 21 million barrels per day as our consumption. We only produce about 7 million barrels per day, leaving 14 or so million barrels per day we must import. We COULD, I believe, get all of our oil from friendly non-Muslim countries -- but I don't see it happening when we've got a military that will go out and fetch it for us and a government quick to use the military for that purpose.

This has been a great conversation, and I look forward to more in the future. I'll mostly be offline for a fortnight and my next home time.