Well, it seems that hardly any topic can stir up more debate than the subject of publicly funded health care.
You may notice that I've made no reference to "government administered" health care ala the V.A. I'm referring only to a third payer method of payment of health care costs- just like the insurance companies, only instead of a check from the insurance company the health care providers receive payment from government.

Many will fear some type of rationing of health care due to shortages in funding. I don't believe this rationing would be any more acute that what is experienced with private insurance coverage. Why not? Health care in this country is already rationed according to what your insurance provider determines is "reasonable and customary"- if a given procedure for some reason costs more than the insurance provider is willing to pay then it is likely that the patient will be expected to pay the difference, or simply do without the procedure. A patient with no insurance will find their options even further limited.
My personal thinking on this is that the insurance provider, being a for profit entity, has vested reason to minimize it's costs- and maximize it's profit. The most effective method of minimizing costs would seem to be by minimizing the numbers of procedures that it's willing to pay for- and to closely scrutinize every step of every medical procedure. This indeed represents de facto rationing, and I would not expect the government, as the payer of health care benefits, to be any stingier with funding than a for profit entity. After all, don't most corporations (this is only my opinion) have a secret "department-of-giving-you-as-little-as-possible-for-your-money"?

Many people fear that their taxes will go up in order to fund government sponsored health care. It's true- TAXES WILL GO UP! This concept represents a massive expenditure, one that of course will require a correspondingly massive inflow of new tax dollars. How will we as working people possibly afford to pay this new, higher tax?
Actually, our existing health care financial burden- which we and our employers will no longer be paying-, in addition to the insurance company profits that we will no longer be funding, (is it moral to profit from another human's suffering?) would be almost sufficient to offset the burden of these new, higher taxes. Almost? Yes, and here's why: additional funding will be required to fund the health care of people for one reason or another are not presently covered by any health insurance plan. We live in the world's most prosperous nation- I think it's unconscionable that people should go without proper heath care based solely on financial grounds.

Many of our readers have raised concerns regarding research and development of new drugs and procedures. That removing the profit motive from this would inhibit the development of these new drugs and procedures. My thinking is that the professionals who actually develop these products and procedures are actually just salaried employees of the corporations- why would they perform any less expediently and productively if the government and not a private corporation were funding their activities?

Still other readers have expressed concern about some sort of medical professional shortage- that enough medical professionals (doctors, nurses, etc.) could not be attracted to medical care as a profession if they could only hope to earn "minimum wage". My thinking is that these people would not be paid any less than they are presently- and why should they be? After all, the only part of the health care system undergoing change would be the ultimate payer- the cost of health care, including personnel and physical plant, is not going to undergo any change.
Hospitals? Of course they as well would be completely publicly funded- the for profit hospital would become a thing of a darker past era; one of profiting from the sick and hurt.

What are the benefits of nationalized health care?
Most important to me is portability- one will maintain their permanent health insurance coverage through instances of job change or periods of unemployment. I realize that we already have a program known as "COBRA", which entitles one, after loss of a job, to purchase health insurance-for eighteen months- similar to the former employer's plan- but at a substantially greater premium. This I think is a poor substitute for genuine portability of health insurance coverage.

Another important benefit is universal coverage- all legal citizens of our country are entitled to health insurance coverage. Our emergency rooms in hospitals are clogged with folks with no health insurance and no alternative to allowing a sometimes minor illness degenerate to a genuine emergency. Still others are forced to utilize emergency rooms in lieu of a visit to the doctor, who after all can't be expected to see patients for no charge.
There are a few who would claim that we already have a system of health care of last resort- Medicaid. The major disadvantage of Medicaid is that one must be destitute to utilize the program; you have to be practically broke. I'll postulate that there are many who have lost their health insurance coverage for any number of reasons and become sick or injured. Must they be expected to give up their house, their car, and life savings to feed the gaping maw of health care costs?

Many here will argue that illegal aliens are consuming a good portion of our health care dollars. They clog our emergency rooms and cause clinics to become unbearably crowded. I agree- this is a significant problem but the problem of illegal immigration is topic for another discussion and should-theoretically at least- have no bearing on the topic of nationalized health care.
rx

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I have, most overwhelmingly say NFG

I think when the government starts being in full control of the healthcare of it's citizens you can expect long waits, and you can expect some things that you may not want to be made mandatory (you will loose choices in concern for your own health, due to government rules, regulation, and someone else's idea as to what type service you will recieve)

In my opinion when this universal health care passes which is being rushed through so it can be passed a lot of people will be a whole lot worse off than they are currently, for a whole lot of reasons, I don't think it will improve health care to make it so that taxes are raised so high your guaranteed to be paying the greater majority of your pay check to fund this, and what I mean is even more of your check than what is already going towards taxes for various government programs.

I think in my opinion the American dollar has very little value especially as it is no longer backed like it once was, it used to be for every dollar printed there was gold or silver stored somewhere to represent that dollar but now it isn't.

And raising taxes higher and higher just to fund the latest government idea is just plain stupid imho, especially since so many people are loosing jobs, have lost jobs, and the cost of living has gone up to the point being that it is very difficult to even buy the things you need much less want.

The best thing the government could do in my opinion is to stop importing from every communist country (prime example of communist country we import from China) and second best thing would to be to tax any and all imports to the point it would be more cost effective for companies to make and produce their products here (which would creat all kinds of jobs, from factor workers to truck driving to building etc)

Third the government needs to stop creating more and more and more programs that are doing nothing but burdening the people who are trying their level best to make ends meet but can't due to insufficient funds available to employer's or customers to pay decent wages, due to having to pay all kinds of fees to meet the latest enviromental rules, regulations and conditions to even operate. And not being able to compete with countries who are known to use slave labor camps (China is again a good example of this). This takes away jobs.

I mean if you want to import something fine, but it should be taxed at a whole lot higher rate than items made within this country by people who live here, so that items imported are luxury items. Not items that you buy because you can not afford to buy anthing else due to not having enough real income on your pay check due to it being taken out to pay for whatever new or improved program that the government or some politician has decided to come up with.

It would be nice if every single person in the world had access to all the best of everything, but the plain and simple fact is most people don't have access to the best of everything, because of cost.

If someone wants to be charitable and offer a product or service at a reduced rate that's great, but in my opinion the government should not be saying you will or else, and that is basically what is being said whenever the government tells you that you will pay whatever new tax they have decided to tax you with, so they can fund the latest program they want to fund.

Instead of that, maybe the government should just give tax breaks for companies that do charitable things or offer services to people who can't afford it, for whatever reason, that would keep it from being something that you have to do reguardless of whether you want to or not.

I also think that once you buy something like a car or house for instance you should not have to constantly be being taxed on that, because it is like your paying to have permission to own that property, and it is never really yours, because if you get behind on a tax the government can take your property even if you have paid for your property in full, and never been late on taxes up until some major crisis happens, also this thing where a government or business can condemn and take your property is just plain stupid imho, and is not right in any sense at all.

I think that the government currently believes it is a god or something, and I really don't think that the government needs more control over individual healthcare choices, because I believe it is going to cause more problems than it helps.

I mean when the government completely controls your health care plan, they also control your access to doctors, if you happen to not like or agree with the doctor that has been chosen for you, just how do you switch doctors, and how do you get a second opinion?

And not all doctors have the same abilities to diagnose (they should have but they don't) and I can give you a good example of that, I don't like going to doctors I hate going in fact because it always costs more money than I can afford. Well I was sick enough to go to the doctor a couple years ago, (I was very sick) so I went to the doctor, I waited for a very long time over two hours if I remember right, maybe longer, then when the doctor finally came in there I was informed I only had a head cold and it would go away on it's on. This particular doctor would not listen to anything and basically did nothing, so I went home with another big bill, and continued to get sicker, so I went to a different doctor, this different doctor decided I had bronchitis and asthma (I don't have asthma, and this doctor could not seem to comprehend that) so anyway he gave me medication and sent me home, and I got sicker, a lot sicker, and finally went to a third doctor, (and this one was in the same offfice as the second doctor) so this doctor went over all the charts and and xray, and diagnosed me with pneumonia, and said I had had it ever since I had went to the first doctor, and the type pnuemonia I had does not go away on it's on without antibiotics and treatment, so he gave me a whole lot of medicines, discontinued just about everything thing doctor #2 had given me, and I finally started to show improvement, he also told me at the rate I was progressing it would of only been a matter of time that I would of ended up in a life threatening situation, (and remember the first doctor told me I had only a cold, I don't go to the doctor for only a cold, I have to be sick to even agree to go to the doctor in the first place)

If I had been under some sort of government mandated no choice of provider take what we give you plan or idea, I would either be dead or in the hospital in a lot more serious condition, than I was in when I was finally diagnosed.

Anyway, as I said it would really really be great if everyone in the world had everything that they needed and wanted but the fact is it isn't going to happen, and to take from those who are working as hard as they can in order to provide for people who will not work by choice, (who fake disablities or refuse to be educated into some kind of line of work they could do) is just not right at all.

Also imho, I believe that anyone who has ever served in any branch of the military should be guaranteed extremely good medical care for life, because of the fact being they have placed their lives in danger, and they have stood up and defended people who have no sense whatsoever, (which is anyone at all who protests the military, especially when at war)

So if the government wants to pay for that from taxes that imho would not be a bad idea, but to just add more and more taxes just so that they can make a feel good situation that says everyone has or is entitled to "quality medical care" is not a good idea, because why even work if you know that 99% of your paycheck is going to be going to pay for people who don't work (who can, should or could with training of some kind) who don't appreciate that we supposedly live in a free country, and who think they are entitled to have whatever someone else works for just because...

The economy could be on the fast track to recover if one simple thing was done maybe one or two other things, but the main one would be to stop importing, and people stop spending what they don't have to spend, (in other words if you haven't saved up what you need to buy something don't go put what you want on a credit card and spend the rest of your life trying to pay off the interest of your wants)

And look for and ask for things that are made in the united states not imported, and do without when you can't find what you want that could be made here. And inform the stores you visit why you are not buying whatever product you would of bought if it had been American made.

And people need to budget, for the things they want so that when they go get what they want it does not cause a crisis in their household.

Also if the government wants road projects they could work on putting in sidewalks so people could safely save on gas by walking to places they need or want to go to locally.

Anyway, universal health care just means that the government will tell you exactly what you will do, how you will do it, and will decide for you whether or not they will give you needed medical care, and will not be a good thing at all, especially if you have any kind of treatable condition that the government decides is costing too much, they could and probably will decide to end treatment whether or not you want them to, and it could be anything, not just things that keep a brain dead body alive, it could be something as simple as diabetes, or asthma. They could decide your costing too much and decide to stop allowing you access to a doctor or treatment, then what happens?

Also since doctors would be strongly encouraged to accept "approved patients" for "approved" medical treatments, interventions etc, a lot of doctors would not even have time to see you if you had cash money to give them at the time of service, due to having to see the patients that the government tells them must come first.

Anyway, I just think the government needs to go on a large scale diet and cut out all or most of the things they seem to think is good for the American people, and I think they need to stop taking so much out of every single paycheck so as to make it practically impossible to do just about anything at all, I mean when your having to work as many hours as some people do, or having to work two three or more jobs to just barely survive while someone else just sits back and takes whatever the government hands them out of your paycheck it is just not right, at all.

If the government wants an improvement as in people spending money to stimulate the economy, it might just help if they would stop taking so much for taxes that people can't even get caught up on the basic bills everyone normally has.

JMHO,

it could be good or bad
but as it is now john q public is getting ripped off by everyone Insurance co that don't pay , Doctors that preform that surgery because he has a house payment to make hospitals that charge $6 for a .13 cent tylonol

So the goverment runs the health care or the insurance crooks run the health care as it is now
IMO might as well let uncle sam have a shot as it sucks as is

okay
we are just never gonna agree on this one
so I have an idea
everyone that wants this new goobermint healthcare raise their hands
those people will get too pay for it, all of it, by themselves
those of us who opt out
will not have our taxes raised to pay for this really bad plan
nor will we be allowed to use it
however we will be allowed to continue buying our own health insurance like we have been doing all along
or we could just opt out of that and pay cash for our healthcare
this should be a system paid for by those who want it for themselves and others
those of us who do not want it should not have to pay for it

any objections?
this seems real fair to me
any supporters of this horrible healthcare plan care to give me a reason why the users of it should have to pay for it?
or why those of us who will be excluded from health care based on race gender or political beliefs should be forced to pay higher taxes to support something we believe to be wrong

I personally don't see how anyone can attack this plan without admitting that they only want to steal from the productive people to support the lazy and useless

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this is not a difference of opinion, it is a fight for the very survival of our country, I will use any means neccessary to defend my liberty and the liberty of those like me, and when this fight is won, I will use any means at my disposal to punish the enemy for what they have brought on my country. that is how wars should be fought

Makes perfect sense to me, I liked this post you made.

I just wish we could all agree to call a spade a spade, What is being proposed is SOCIALIZED MEDICINE!

Exactly.
And I agree

Yep...I agree.

The government has proven beyond any doubt that it cannot run anything right...and you want to give them control over your healthcare???

If so, you need your head examined.