Originally Posted by JahB

So, one can only gain your respect by agreeing with you, or by taking the opposite point of view and vehemently disagreeing?

Well, Why wait? We should just start shooting those who don't agree with us, and imprisoning or re-educating those have yet to figure it all out like US! Then we can see what's left of our country when we're done. Because WE are RIGHT and THEY are wrong.. Sounds oddly familiar..... like....Iraq, Iran, Cambodia, the Third Reich. What noble aspiration.

"A proven plagiarist and known liar who's already proven his ignorance of Iraq too the Iraqis themselves who laught in his face at his three state solution."

You want to link to some actual facts, or just puke them out there without any substantiation, or is that just your OPINION?

Biden was cleared of wrongdoing by both the Syracuse Law School and the Delaware Bar Association. As to his paraphrasing of Kinnock's speech during the campaign in 1988: Look, citing or using key phrases coined by others is common in politics. It's actually pretty tough to come across a political speech where the candidate doesn't quote or paraphrase someone else - and often it is done without citing the original author of the phrase. I guess every word uttered by any OTHER politician without citing an author is just because all their thoughts and ideas are completely original, right? Only Biden is the plagiarist, right? How dumb is that? I just think you should spead the warm brown stuff over ALL of them, not just the ones you dislike. I'm not defending Biden, I'm defending honest research, curiosity and intelligence.

As for respect, I have none for people who can't identify their own intellectual dishonesty and ignorance, nor any for ideologues who don't know enough to make a cogent case for their opinions, and would rather lazily quote people who are paid to entertain them, or repeat tired (liberal OR conservative) talking points that support their.....wait for it.... OPINIONS. So I guess we're even on that score.


MY politics, since I have so assiduously avoided siding with and can take potshots at either one or the other in your little arguments and opinions over the number of angels on the head of your stupid parochial pin? Fair enough. Here's some insight. Let me put it in terms you can understand....I'm neither a republican or a democrat. I'm an AMERICAN!

From Common Sense by Thomas Payne (italicized phrases altered to make my point)

Absolute Governments, though the disgrace of human nature, have this advantage with them, that they are simple; if the people suffer, they know the head from which their suffering springs, they know likewise the remedy, and are not bewildered by a variety of causes and cures. But the Government of the United States is so exceedingly complex that the nation may suffer for years together without being able to discover in which part the fault lies; some will say in one, and some in another, and every political physician will advise a different medicine.

I know it is difficult to get over local or longstanding prejudices, yet if we will suffer ourselves to examine the component parts of the Government of the United States, we shall find them to be the remains of two ancient tyrannies, compounded with some new republican materials.

Firstly: The remains of the monarchical tyranny in the office of the President.
Secondly: The remains of aristocratical tyranny in the person of the peers Congress and the Supreme Court.
Thirdly: The new republican materials in the person of the electorate, on whose virtue depends the freedom of America.

The two first, by being traditional/entrenched are independent of the people; wherfore in a constitutional sense, they contribute nothing towards the freedom of the state.

To say that the government of America is a union of three powers reciprocally checking each other is farcical; either the words have no meaning, or they are flat contradictions.

My comments on this:
It is incumbent on American patriots to stop being slaves to dogma and ideology, and start thinking in practical terms how to solve the problems we face. Race bias, intolerance, prejudice, opinionated stupidity and opposition to the OTHER isn't going to get it done. It keeps you exactly where the government WANTS you. Powerless. How do you like it so far?

Want to keep beating up on people who disagree with you, or are you ready to get smart and start changing what needs to be changed? WE are not your enemy, YOU are not our enemy. WE are YOU.

Please. Shut up and think. Learn. THEN start arguing...but let's argue how to go about making this right. Thanks.

Originally Posted by JahB

So, one can only gain your respect by agreeing with you, or by taking the opposite point of view and vehemently disagreeing?

Well, Why wait? We should just start shooting those who don't agree with us, and imprisoning or re-educating those have yet to figure it all out like US! Then we can see what's left of our country when we're done. Because WE are RIGHT and THEY are wrong.. Sounds oddly familiar..... like....Iraq, Iran, Cambodia, the Third Reich. What noble aspiration.

"A proven plagiarist and known liar who's already proven his ignorance of Iraq too the Iraqis themselves who laught in his face at his three state solution."

You want to link to some actual facts, or just puke them out there without any substantiation, or is that just your OPINION?

Biden was cleared of wrongdoing by both the Syracuse Law School and the Delaware Bar Association. As to his paraphrasing of Kinnock's speech during the campaign in 1988: Look, citing or using key phrases coined by others is common in politics. It's actually pretty tough to come across a political speech where the candidate doesn't quote or paraphrase someone else - and often it is done without citing the original author of the phrase. I guess every word uttered by any OTHER politician without citing an author is just because all their thoughts and ideas are completely original, right? Only Biden is the plagiarist, right? How dumb is that? I just think you should spead the warm brown stuff over ALL of them, not just the ones you dislike. I'm not defending Biden, I'm defending honest research, curiosity and intelligence.

As for respect, I have none for people who can't identify their own intellectual dishonesty and ignorance, nor any for ideologues who don't know enough to make a cogent case for their opinions, and would rather lazily quote people who are paid to entertain them, or repeat tired (liberal OR conservative) talking points that support their.....wait for it.... OPINIONS. So I guess we're even on that score.


MY politics, since I have so assiduously avoided siding with and can take potshots at either one or the other in your little arguments and opinions over the number of angels on the head of your stupid parochial pin? Fair enough. Here's some insight. Let me put it in terms you can understand....I'm neither a republican or a democrat. I'm an AMERICAN!

From Common Sense by Thomas Payne (italicized phrases altered to make my point)

Absolute Governments, though the disgrace of human nature, have this advantage with them, that they are simple; if the people suffer, they know the head from which their suffering springs, they know likewise the remedy, and are not bewildered by a variety of causes and cures. But the Government of the United States is so exceedingly complex that the nation may suffer for years together without being able to discover in which part the fault lies; some will say in one, and some in another, and every political physician will advise a different medicine.

I know it is difficult to get over local or longstanding prejudices, yet if we will suffer ourselves to examine the component parts of the Government of the United States, we shall find them to be the remains of two ancient tyrannies, compounded with some new republican materials.

Firstly: The remains of the monarchical tyranny in the office of the President.
Secondly: The remains of aristocratical tyranny in the person of the peers Congress and the Supreme Court.
Thirdly: The new republican materials in the person of the electorate, on whose virtue depends the freedom of America.

The two first, by being traditional/entrenched are independent of the people; wherfore in a constitutional sense, they contribute nothing towards the freedom of the state.

To say that the government of America is a union of three powers reciprocally checking each other is farcical; either the words have no meaning, or they are flat contradictions.

My comments on this:
It is incumbent on American patriots to stop being slaves to dogma and ideology, and start thinking in practical terms how to solve the problems we face. Race bias, intolerance, prejudice, opinionated stupidity and opposition to the OTHER isn't going to get it done. It keeps you exactly where the government WANTS you. Powerless. How do you like it so far?

Want to keep beating up on people who disagree with you, or are you ready to get smart and start changing what needs to be changed? WE are not your enemy, YOU are not our enemy. WE are YOU.

Please. Shut up and think. Learn. THEN start arguing...but let's argue how to go about making this right. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Hamm109

Thats quiet the diatribe!
No,..no middle ground with people who spread the disease than profess their innocence. No bipartisan political correctness, no middle of the road meeting of the minds, no soft terany, no socialism lite, no few billion here a regulation there and we'll fix everything.

Originally Posted by Hamm109

No more secular Star Trek daydreams of the perfect world order!

Originally Posted by Hamm109

LOL I wont be "shutting up" I'll post my opinions with or without your approval when I have one, till the moderators here kick me out!
As for "shutting me up"...LOL! did you lose your grip on the closet door? That sounded very Democrat to me.

Originally Posted by Hamm109

If you have a complaint about what I've posted I suggest you take it up with them.
Signed
The Anti Stealth Political Affiliate

Originally Posted by goin2fast10

I "sense" something coming from you...not quite sure just yet...but give me time. I believe in gathering all the facts and data available, add a little common sense, a dose of common knowledge and "make MY decision" accordingly.

I don't disagree (entirely) with your assessment(s)...but something else (IMNSHO) seems/feels to be a motivator.

Originally Posted by goin2fast10

For instance;

Why demonize those who may actually believe "we are right, they are wrong" (me, and I credit where I got that statement from)when "common sense" explains the "proof".

Originally Posted by goin2fast10

Yet;

Would (in your OPINION) education NOT cure the problem? Is a lack of education NOT the problem?

"I" contend "yes" on both counts. I typically admonish the "education system"as an abject failure and use 1 (one) simple FACT as proof, (NO link necessary) to prove who's right and who's wrong...

IF truly education was THE AGENDA of the system, THIS forum and these conversations wouldn't be necessary. Why? History would be TAUGHT not merely referenced citing "conflicts" without "studying why",i.e. "root cause". ...the inflicting of one's will over another...1 or 1,000,000 makes no difference...root cause....cause and effect...natural law...the natural order of things...the laws of physics...CANNOT be denied. Period end of story.
...we're right, they're wrong...a summarization...

Originally Posted by goin2fast10

Professed knowledgable, alleged educated DENY the truth, common sense, logic and reason every minute of every day...where we are as a "Nation with a gov't" PROVES beyond a doubt...NO LINK AVAILABLE ...but guess what? Just because "I" a lowly forum Individual "poster" arrived at that conclusion doesn't make it any less valid. Link or not.

I appreciate the Thomas Paine though...and tend to agree. BUT as a "thinking Individual" with a "romantic notion" of "Independence" and a RESPECT for the Individual and his ability to figure out how, when why is provided or discovered keeps me optimistic...HISTORY is on my side....Thomas Paine on the other hand was relying on "common sense" which is not a "common virtue"...and I am not belittling or comparing...pointing out the obvious only. So, I advocate for education. True education...not agenda passed off as...

So...why not insist...again, the question; "what can I do"...

Originally Posted by JahB

I agree. A hollow middle ground to make sure all the little boys and girls get trophies at the end of the season is bullpucky. How about DIS-partisan political re-imagination based on agreed absolutes? Or new rules? Here's my problem with things as they are.
If difference of OPINION is not given accommodation in a government (or for that matter in political discourse and discussion), then:

1. The majority rules at the expense of the minority. Or,
2. The minority rules at the expense of the majority.

You decide, where are we now? Pick one.
If that's the case, where were we in the last administration?
I assert we are now in the second situation. I further assert that In the last administration, we were ALSO in the second situation.

Only the minority or the majority isn't conservatives or liberals, it's favored elites versus the rest of us. It's the frickin' machine versus the people.

I don't think the current form of government is representative in ANY case. Nobody is happy, except those in power, or those who benefit unfairly that the people in power keep feeding the machine. Funny thing is, the party changes, but the beneficiaries remain largely the same. Pick your special interest group. Billionaires, Defense Contractors, Welfare Moms, or Illegal Aliens.

A Star Trek perfect galactic order did not exist in Star Trek either, not that it matters. How about option number...

3. A wide open and multi-party parliamentary government re-designed to accommodate agreed upon central and highly specific needs and intention for the government to provide exact and well defined services and function, with voice for, and as necessary and agreed, care for, the needs of ALL, without unfairness or excessive imposition on the majority to accomplish it?

In other words, LIMIT function and power of government. Disassemble the Military/Financial/Governmental complex before it completely guts the middle class. That doesn't mean put republicans OR democrats in charge of the same old tired, stupid behemoth of a government as always. It means having the courage to start over.

Ignore current political exigency, ignore vested interest of either socialistic, or capitalistic investment in the system to keep the gravy train running, and REDESIGN the function and character of the government based on SIMPLE COMMON SENSE. We did it in 1776, and we are well past the point of re-constraining and re-designing our government now. WE can and should DO IT AGAIN. Identify and Elect your representatives to the First New American Constitutional Congress now.



Here's where my pique was coming from.... what good does picking apart the "other" do? Hounding on one or the other side for it's failures, faults, and stupidity ad nauseum does no good. It polarizes, it angers, and here's my problem.... it DISTRACTS from the real work that needs to happen. OK.. I apologize.. I listened to the same #### from liberals about Bush, blah blah blah, as now we hear about Obama, Biden, etc..how long do we keep shouting down the dummies? So, we have changed to a democratic administration... and the underlying problems remain. I'm SICK of BOTH parties inneffectual leadership, and all the RED/BLUE BS that goes with it. I want ALL of them (not just you) to shut up and start looking for NEW ways to run the country.



I don't have a complaint about what you've posted, particularly, it's just a waste of time and energy. I'm not stealth ANYTHING. I was trying to avoid the pathetic RED/BLUE garbage that keeps things as they are.