Really?

Class warfare rhetoric is THE ROOT cause. It "allows" legislation and mandates to make "equal" through MORE taxes.

Congress has for over 70 years ATTEMPTED AND FAILED to "create the greater good" through taxes...like carbon dioxide "the greater good is a natural occurence" CREATED through "natual acts",i.e. PRIVATE TRANSACTIONS in which BOTH Individuals "profit".

Asserting that a "congressional body" has the "moral authority" to determine the outcome, or "the greater good" based on "preference" of a group or Individual want, percieved need or desire is ludicrous at best.

Congress's NO.1 JOB is to "protect,defend and preserve". NOT ALTER to suit "opinion" based on "political expediency" or "I want, therefore I deserve, so it should be given me" mentality.

Profit is NOT the demon. Writing laws to favor EITHER is THE DEMON. Changing the rules of the game every administration based on some MISpercieved "opinion" IS "class warfare RHETORIC" manifested.

....a self evident tuth....all men are created equal...INCLUDING congress persons and POTUS's.
Ruling over is NOT governing. MANDATING is "ruling over". DICTATING is "ruling over"...

Historically, ALL conflicts can be traced to "the infliction of the will of one over another",i.e. RULING, hence FAILURE. FACT, not point of view!

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The public cannot be too curious concerning the characters of public men.

some folks consider what a is failure differently depending on there goals etc... and in something that fails on one level might be a benefit on another

like C.A.R.B. it was a total waste on one side and made the cars suck for a whole decade but on the other hand it forced the tech to advance and we have much better cars today then we did back then

At the cost of driving out O/O's who were exempt from the Moyer/WBE/MBE assistance programs.....

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A Patriot's Dream Come True.......Beauty, Brains, And Conservative......

Obama and Company: Step aside and let the adults take Charge.......Playtime is over.....

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Circumstantial or situational evidence to "restrict" the whole is retarded. It serves ONLY those in the situation or circumstance...to benefit one over the other through legislation and/or mandates is NOT Constitutionally legal. Nor is it "morally acceptable".

Cars is a situation and circumstance...are they better? Yes, and we have all benefitted...BUT, on the other hand, how's GM doing? Chrysler? Can CARB be held directly responsible? No...they are situation and circumstance created from ....what was that again?

I'm not trying to be a smart ###...I am looking at OUR situation logically and using "reason" to evaluate what "I" see...

And from another "view point"...let's play devil's advocate...Health care...who will benefit the most from a "single payer system" the gov't being the "payer"?

Or yet another...illegal immigration...who stands to benefit the most from/with "comprehensive reform"?
No, not corp's...not the legal citizens...

Or yet another...class warfare. Who benefits from the rhetoric? Tax paying citizens? The recipients? No...

Yet the above examples are "situation, circumstance" used to legislate MORE restrictions on EVERYONE except...who?

"View point" is situation/circumstance personnified to "legislate/mandate" opinion...opinion of who?

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The public cannot be too curious concerning the characters of public men.

who would benefit from a single payer system assume for a moment that it could be run well
1 those who could not afford health insurance
2 maybe everyone would save in the cost as it would be spread out over a larger pool
3 it would make it easier for small biz guys like me as I wouldn't have to buy health insurance for my employees as is expected now and for a little guy like me I just cannot get the deal that mega corp can with 1000s of people
4 GM as it would solve a lot of its cost for retired workers

opinion of who well those that vote of course and most of America voted for Obama and his policy goals were pretty clear as health care reform was a main part of the campaign

Now there is another part he has not tried to sell single payer as it is now he is selling a govt plan to compete with the private plans

Do the two statements hi-lited really make any sense?
WHEN has the fed gov't EVER RAN ANYTHING RIGHT?
WHEN HAS THE FED GOV'T EVER STOPPED?
Answer, NEVER!

You come across as fairly intelligent...WHY would you, a small business OWNER allow a freakin egotistical, self centered, self serving, shallow, LYING bag of horse #### to RULE over HOW YOU do/conduct your business?
THEY WROTE THE RULES YOU ARE ALREADY COMPLYING TO...how's that working out?

And you want them to BE IN CONTROL of YOUR HEALTH? Can you not see the irony? IF you believe ANYTHING that involves "mandating" due to a circumstance/situation THEY created to FIX the mess THEY CREATED maybe you should sell your business.
And I'm NOT trying to be insulting. Just look at what you're saying. My Lord. THEY WROTE THE RULES as they are now for cryin out loud.

You wouldn't have to buy health insurance for your employees? Why should I have to? I don't even know you...or your employees. I didn't ASK or force you to accept the reponsibility of "business owner"...nor did the fed gov't...just a bit selfish don't you think? DEMANDING someone else PAY for your responsibility?

Man, wake up and smell the coffee. WHY are you so trusting of someone who has no skin in the game (to quote barry)...THEY DO NOT have YOUR "best interest" in mind...IF they truly did they would ENCOURAGE "private sector" solutions (which BTW is a direct result of "Life,Liberty and the PURSUIT of Happiness). Not to mention THEIR JOB! You know, the oath of office? Protect (secure), defend(STAND FOR) and preserve (NOT let die) The Constitution which is THE RULES they are supposed to abide by to GOVERN.

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The public cannot be too curious concerning the characters of public men.

I agree that it shouldn't matter if you are a mega corporation or a small business, you should all be able to pay at the same group rate, this I've not understood about group insurance, but I don't know alot about that aspect.

As far as "most of America" voting for Obama? Poppycock. Or don't you count the conservative votes? I'd hardly call "most" when it was 58 mil McCain and 67 mil for Obama:

[LINK POSTED BY MEMBER] Only Members Can View This Truck Forum Link.

Now see I thought he was voted in because he wasn't going to raise taxes on those making less than $250,000.00 or was it $200,000.00....no maybe it was $150,000.00? Oh well, it doesn't matter because we all know he didn't mean that. What he really meant to say was those making less than those collecting welfare. He's really such a cute little socialist.// What a character ....lol Don't you just love those ears? You'd think he'd be able to hear the people screaming by now.

there is always rules like them or not and the better one is at playing them the better one does

Nobody forced me to go into business and that is not the point I don't have to buy insurance now but I do in order to keep my employees and because I can
you asked who would benefit and if it was run well those are a couple examples of who could
Why trust them well I don't think the private sector is serving us well and I for one am so feed up with the status quo I think it is worth a shot as it can't get much worse

if a big if they can run it well does it really make a difference as to who we pay in theory the fed does not have to make a profit so the should be able to provide the same service for less money

So the govt is the HMO instead of the HMO it really doesn't matter who sends you the letter saying they won't pay the claim

and I know these are the same morons that pay $500 for a hammer and $20 for a pbj in iraq for no reason as they didn't need kbr for cooks

So I guess the real question is how to we get them to not do this stupid bs
and stop wasting $$ and work on what benefits us and not there pocket if we could get that done then this question would be easy

From this thread it is easy to see you have lost any faith in the govt and it is understandable the only real difference is I don't have any faith in the other guys as well

See I used to think that a selective bomb that would kill 3/4 of the politicians 3/4 of the lawyers 1/2 the doctors and 1/2 the bankers that we would all be better off but I have mellowed with age

it would still be most if it was 58mil +1
As far as the group rate it is just like any biz the more you can spend the better deal you can get like I get brake shoes for $30 where you probally can't but I buy 25 sets a month so they cut me a deal
and for the most part thats ok but health care is somthing everyone needs and if this in theory should let us all buy at the same rate

I am not pro single payer or pro any path just what works so any better ideas are welcome
But IMO insurance is a rackett plain as that just like union dock workers etc...