Originally Posted by im6under

shoveling the blame to the poor is the cowards way out...

Originally Posted by Ken

~Snipped~

And blaming the rich is just a cop out..

I came from a poor family. I wasn't provided any better opportunities than anyone else. I didn't have any scholarships to college, I didn't have a dream job handed to me..

I joined the service, I went to night school and got a degree. When I got out of the service I got a job that provided education reimbursement and got my BSEE.

Now tell me how I was able to that. And then tell me why everyone can't do that?

Sure, there are extenuating circumstances in everyones life, but by and large there is no reason people can't be successful except for either laziness, ignorance or stupidity.

Originally Posted by Working Class Patriot

Hmmm......The Lenape were involved with the first real estate transaction.....They thought they made out......hardly stealing....

You may have heard of that famous transaction...Manhattan Island ring a bell????

Btw....I'm part Lenape.......so blame me partially....

Originally Posted by Mooney

Corporations....hmmm....shareholders......Hmmm.... ..getting to vote...........hmmmm....sounds democratic to me......

Originally Posted by im6under

bill and his anti-trust law suits are probably not your best illustration.

alexander bell... great guy made a telephone rich??? no....

set up wires all over heck and back... built lots of phones and charged for the use of them... rich hooray....

fair is fair...

little girl gets run over in the street... driver runs to the closest pay phone and screams to the operator call the police or an ambulance she is bleeding to death...

operator: please deposit 25 cents...

stupid example... because att or whomever would of course send help immediately...

actually... only by act of congress... lol they used to really want that money first...

"SEE" that line in the sand... partner... (actually its a really wide and broad line made up of millions of over-lapping little lines...

but grahmm did the telephone, why does he owe you or the dying child a phone call???

nobody knows... but most refer to the immediate need out weighs the other...

the child is valued higher than a coin earned or owed...

should you jump in front of the car to save her? some will some won't... but a life for a life is not the measure of a life for a coin.

you stop and try to help the girl and move her just so to comfort her... and she dies as a broken neck bone pierces her artery... not your fault...

you were trying to help.

the line is very broad and often a personal one... but generally only the far left and far right argue whatever is decided individually... and when the group decides it often errs towards the middle... affording the least amount of unhappiness to the agrieved...

we the people say grahmm deserves his fortune but not at the expense of the child...

we the people say people need healthcare... and if grahmm and me and you and insurance companies and hospitals and doctors and nurses all have to swollow hard to get it done... to bad... "we" have spoken.

without the we there would be no grahmm or gates or cars... the "we" rule supreme and always have though we didn't know it...

we know it now... and yet we refuse to exercise our control because we really and truly do try to respect the you, gates, grahmm health care industry... just not at the expense of the child or less fortunate.

silly example but it works in all we do... thus far...

how can your country impose a tax burden on you to benefit another ???

why'd you think we got them???? the u.s. was not formed by morally corrupt and ethically challanged individuals... they formed a country to protect us and themselves from any who become so large as to think they are better or worth more than the group.

its a back and forth thing... group over individual... but there is always that test of greater good.

Originally Posted by im6under

we'll consider your civic duty then...

Originally Posted by im6under

y...snipped.....

and just a soon as the capitalists are paying you 50 cents a mile to work and gas hits 50 bucks a gallon... you'll be a liberal thru and thru... everybody has their price...

Originally Posted by im6under

nobody is forcing doctors into the plan??????

they can all hang out a shingle and go totally private...

of course their are only so many that can afford that... so many may go broke... or turn back to making house calls and taking chickens as payment...

doctors have always been respected and upper middle class... stupid rich is just from the late 50's on forward... along with the decline of america.

Originally Posted by Ken

~Snipped~

And blaming the rich is just a cop out..

I came from a poor family. I wasn't provided any better opportunities than anyone else. I didn't have any scholarships to college, I didn't have a dream job handed to me..

I joined the service, I went to night school and got a degree. When I got out of the service I got a job that provided education reimbursement and got my BSEE.

Now tell me how I was able to that. And then tell me why everyone can't do that?

Sure, there are extenuating circumstances in everyones life, but by and large there is no reason people can't be successful except for either laziness, ignorance or stupidity.

Originally Posted by kajidono

Hey, I'm part Cherokee. I guess his fridge really is mine. Er, I guess we could split it. He better have some good beer in there.