let's talk fleet managers

Discussion in 'Prime' started by Pouring Coal, Apr 7, 2014.

  1. HillJack

    HillJack Light Load Member

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    May 22, 2013
    Leitchfield, Ky
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    So... I'm nowhere near an expert here... but I find a flaw in your numbers. I doubt 7.2 mpg is "on the low end" and $3.95 per gallon is "on the high end". I'm not trying to nitpick... and am not a super trucker, actually I just started TNT. I am, however going leas in a year or two as the only experience I have prior to prime is riding in the truck. I'm just trying to help here... you may want to refigure your figures.
     
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  3. Pouring Coal

    Pouring Coal Light Load Member

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    Apr 23, 2012
    Newark Ohio
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    I avg'd 7.79 loaded and empty across 47k hub miles during my psd/tnt period, saw as low as 6.2 and as high as 9.9, both under loads. primes avg fuel cost is around 3.65, national avg is 3.93. you may want to do a lot more research before you nitpick. my figures are sound, but thanks for looking at them man. Good luck on that tnt, I just finished, and its a great feeling.
     
  4. HillJack

    HillJack Light Load Member

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    May 22, 2013
    Leitchfield, Ky
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    Thanks coal. And once again I wasn't trying to nitpick lol... just trying to help where I can. Just thought they looked a little off based on what I have seen. Good luck in your endeavors.
     
  5. Pouring Coal

    Pouring Coal Light Load Member

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    Apr 23, 2012
    Newark Ohio
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    No problem. Out of curiosity, what have you been seeing? Never hurts to see others calculations.
     
  6. HillJack

    HillJack Light Load Member

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    May 22, 2013
    Leitchfield, Ky
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    Averaging around 7.5 mpg and fuel prices are avg around 4.05 which isn't far from your numbers... but its kinda like when I plan a trip.. I plan on 50mph... I'm doing 58 almost the entire time but what if? What if I hit traffic? What if fuel prices spike? What if the tires you bought are causing a drop in mpgs? You always have to plan for what ifs...
     
  7. ironpony

    ironpony Road Train Member

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    Sep 23, 2007
    Ask my GPS...
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    Traffic... do your driving first so that the extra time on a trip is at the back end. That way if you're delayed you'll have the extra time to deal with it. If it means you're going to be late, you want to inform dispatch as soon as you're aware of it.

    Fuel... obviously you don't understand how fuel surcharge works. The higher fuel prices go, the more the owner-operator benefits... as long as you're getting great fuel economy.

    Tires... if you understand how rolling resistance works, you won't have that problem.
     
  8. Pouring Coal

    Pouring Coal Light Load Member

    129
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    Apr 23, 2012
    Newark Ohio
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    You want to figure out at low mpg and high fuel cost when you calculate wether or not leasing can be profitable to you. You dont want optimistic numbers, at least I dont lol. As ip said, your looking at sticker price. Aside from Connecticut, with primes discount you wont see 4/a gal, until prices are around 4.30 or so. But at that national avg, you'd also be seeing an fsc of around .550 or so.
    Rack price, wholesale costs, and several other factors go into what you actually pay'

    Also, in a well maintained truck with proper maintenance and proper driving, no reason you cant avg 8+mpg.

    What kind of costs per mile where you seing with those numbers? Ip can confirm, but you're looking at better then 1.10 a mile in fuel, fixed and variable costs, or around 3 grand gvr to get to a break even point.something to think about.
     
  9. HillJack

    HillJack Light Load Member

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    May 22, 2013
    Leitchfield, Ky
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    Good reason I will be driving company before leasing... I have no clue what any of this means.
    IP... obviously I don't understand how most of this works lol... I'm just getting into this and have A LOT to learn...
    Coal, I was actually trying to be less optimistic with the mpg and fuel cost... but now I'm starting to get confused. So maybe instead of trying to help I should be the one seeking help.
     
  10. Pouring Coal

    Pouring Coal Light Load Member

    129
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    Apr 23, 2012
    Newark Ohio
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    Ill let ip correct me any area im wrong, he did what most cant, completed the lease and bought his truck. Definitely a guy to listen to.

    Id suggest what ive done the last 3 years. Learn every aspect of operating a truck, ask the dumb questions, then ask the smart ones lol. Im still learning how to apply what I taught myself to what im doing, and its a constantly evolving process.

    Costs per mile are, well, the costs it takes for that truck to move down the road. Fuel is the cost of fuel which I figure by taking miles ran, 2500,divided by avg, mpg to get # of gal used, 347.2. take that figure and multiply by fuel cost @3.95 or whatever figure you decide on, a $3.95/gal =$1,371.44 total fuel cost. divide fuel cost by miles ran = $.548cpm before fsc. of course, you'd want to use your actual figures for the week when your running the truck. Someone correct me if im wrong here lol

    for the rest, just figure your fixed costs, truck payment, ins, plates, apu, etc. youre looking at around $1170/wk in fixed expenses, divided that by miles ran = $.468cpm

    variables are your variable payment of .045cpm, tire fund of .02cpm and if you want you can set a maintenance fund and a misc/tax fund @ a permile basis. we'll just use the payment and tire fund, or $137.5 on 2500 miles. so divide that =$.055


    so adding those up you end up with $1.071 per mile. take that number x miles = $2,677.50, and this is your break even point, and this is what you would subtract from your gross revenue to figure your adjusted gross revenue for taxes. you figure an avg rate per mile at prime is around 1.25, then .40 for fuel surcharge = $1.65 per mile - $1.07 =.$58cpm profit. before taxes and health ins. if you want it, any maintence etc. some weeks are higher, some are lower, and depending on your personal tax situation you can actually end up making less per mile then a company guy on a avg to tight week.

    now it comes down why do you want to lease? do you want to own your own truck and are willing to sacrifice sometimes to achive that goal? you want the ability to hit that "home run" load? the ability to manage your own business and reap the rewards of running an efficient truck? the big truck? more home time? more freedom in how you operate? Here's a hint, a few of those are really bad reasons lol, and will more likely lead to failure. the big question is do you have the ability to stay inside the numbers on a daily basis to see where its working and where its not, and can you run the truck efficiently.

    Theres a lot more to it, but theres your basic numbers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
  11. ironpony

    ironpony Road Train Member

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    Sep 23, 2007
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    Fuel surcharge is a variable reimbursement meant to insulate a business from the effects of volatile fuel prices. Freight contracts are generally let on a long-term basis, quite often for a year. During the course of that year, fuel price can vary greatly... which if you bet wrong on how prices go, can quickly gut a companies profits. Fuel surcharge is set to protect both the shipper and the carrier. It's based on last weeks' average fuel price, and uses some relatively arbitrary set points to achieve a desired surcharge rate. Usually it's based on the national average fuel price reported by DOE (I think) and assumes a truck gets 6-mpg and the desired fuel price is $1.25 per gallon. Prime uses our average fleet fuel price after the corporate fuel discounts are deducted.

    Say fuel is $4.00 per gallon fleet average... at 6-mpg, that works out to $4/6mpg or 66.7 cents per mile for fuel costs. What fuel surcharge does is to provide a payment to return that price to what it would be for fuel at $1.25 per gallon or $1.25/6mpg = 20.8 cents per mile. 66.7 - 20.8 = a fuel surcharge rate of 45.9 cents per mile. So on a 1,000 mile run, you'd receive $459.00 in fuel surcharge payments. Byzantine, but that's how it's computed.

    To complicate that, what Prime does is collects fuel surcharge based on it's shipping contracts... so a customer may pay more or less than the fuel surcharge based on our fleet average. Whatever is collected is passed on to the operator. On new contracts, if Prime collects more than what is set by our fleet average, that difference over the fleet average fuel surcharge is split between Prime and the operator according to the linehaul revenue split of 28/72 to the company/operator... which really doesn't amount to a whole lot for the individual. When they instituted that policy, I was keeping close track of fuel surcharge rates, and what I collected... so taking data for a couple of months, figuring the hit for a year averaged over all miles... it worked out to the company getting about 0.1-cpm. That kind of decrease in your revenue isn't all that significant.

    The jist is if fuel prices go up, your fuel surcharge payment goes up. Do a great job on fuel economy, and you can actually make money on the fuel surcharge.

    On spot market freight rates (one-time loads) fuel rates are worked into that one-time rate... so fuel surcharge only applies to long-term contracts.

    Rolling resistance is something that is calculated to figure out how rolling friction affects tires. There's not an industry standard yet, and manufacturers play that off of each other right now. Michelin is the only manufacturer who really tests nearly all tires from all manufacturers using a single standard. You can see how that works using their tire calculator page...

    http://www.michelintruck.com/michelintruck/toolbox/FuelSavcalculator.jsp

    Once you get into it, there is a table that lists various tire models, and it specifies a non-dimensional number that indicates what the rolling resistance is. The higher the number, the worse the tire is for fuel consumption. Lower your truck's overall rolling resistance by about 10 points, and you'll gain about 0.1 mpg.

    Pouring Coal. Your per-mile rate for fixed costs is rather optimistic. My '09 Cascadia ran about $1.24 per mile under a 3-year lease agreement. That's not including an emergency fund.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2014
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