Stll having big problems downshifting

Discussion in 'Questions From New Drivers' started by Steve C, Mar 10, 2013.

  1. Steve C

    Steve C Bobtail Member

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    Jan 1, 2013
    Wichita, KS
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    Are there any instructors on here who have quickly and successfully taught someone to downshift? I've posted about this before and it seems like everyone has a slightly different idea or suggestion. Forget about the clutch and float the gears, double clutch, only clutch going into neutral then float it into gear, shift at lower RPM's, shift at a lower speed, etc., etc.

    I've also gotten multiple explanations of the mechanics of transmissions which, while interesting, are not much help in the actual act of shifting.
    Isn't there an industry standard method of teaching a noob how to downshift? My school instructor and the trainer in my new job have not been been very helpful. They keep saying things like "Stop thinking about it so much".

    I don't know about you, but when I'm coming off the interstate onto a 25 MPH exit ramp and all I can do is brake because I'm afraid to take my foot off the brake pedal to "give it more RPM's" I get so frustrated / panicked that I can't think about anything, so over-thinking is definitely not the problem.
    Even when I'm trying to downshift when approaching a stop light on level ground I can't get it right. It's like my left foot, right foot, and right hand all have their own agenda and are no longer speaking to each other.

    As near as I can tell, here's exactly what I'm doing wrong: I'm double clutching on a count of "one thousand one, one thousand two"; on the first count I'm getting off the accelerator and pulling it into neutral. Then the problems start. I try to shift into the lower gear on the second clutch, but I have not yet bumped the RPM's up, so I start grinding the gear. Then I start upping the RPM's but at that point the clutch is no longer depressed because of my timing. Then I push the clutch back in (usually at that point I panic and bury the clutch) and start over.

    This whole process takes about 5 or 6 or 7 seconds, so on round 2, my speed has bled off to the point that I should probably skip a gear, but I'm too lost at that point to know where I'm at. Or I eventually get it into the gear I was aiming for, but by then the engine is lugging so much I should immediately drop another gear, but I'm so lost I just brake until I come to a stop or am going so slow it'll fairly easily drop into 6th.

    I normally pick up on things real quickly, but not this time. I don't think I've ever been so slow on the uptake about anything. I finished school in late January and started training at my new job last week. Friday was my first day of driving the tanker loaded, which just added to my anxiety and, if anything, caused me to be even worse than normal.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.
     
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  3. stevep1977

    stevep1977 Road Train Member

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    I'm not an instructor, but one suggestion based on what your saying might help. I noticed you are referring to problems with situations that require you to come to a complete stop. Not sure if you are trying to power downshift, but that might be part of the problem. Power downshifting (going from 10th to 9th, 9th to 8th, 8th to 7th, etc), or downshifting one gear at a time should only be used if you plan on staying moving and want to maintain power. If you plan on coming to a stop use bump and run (on a 10 speed, i find that going from 10th, run the rpm down to idle, then you can immediately shift straight to 7th gear at 1700 rpms, then go down to 5th once your down to idle in 7th, and then clutch 5th at idle up to the stop sign or stop light

    What you should do is make a mental note of what rpms each gear runs at and the speeds they run at. Once you memorize the gears and match the engine speed (RPM's) to your road speed (MPH) you will know that, say, at 25 mph to get it into 7th gear you'll need to bump the rpms up to 1500, or at 20 mph it'll go into 7th gear at 1150

    Again, the best thing I would suggest is that when you are upshifting and running through the gears, notice you road speed at at what speed your engine and road speed match up at. Note what speeds each gear idles at (especially the low range gears). Whatever rpms the truck is running at at a specific road speed is the same rpms that the truck will go into gear when downshifting. Forget about anyone suggesting floating the gears. You can figure that out once you have a better grasp. Just remember, clutch in, gear out, clutch out, rpm's up, clutch in, gear in, ease off clutch.
     
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  4. STexan

    STexan Road Train Member

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    I think maybe you are in fact over-thinking the situation. I'm not sure how they're trying to teach it but if you can try slowing a little from highway speed (top gear) and going into the next lowest gear before you get too far down the ramp ... take it one step at a time. Learn to downshift one gear before you try and advance to skipping 2 or 3 in the downshift. And you have to understand that the engine rpm must match almost precisely to the road speed curve to allow the tranny to accept the new gear. While this may sound daunting, it's not once you learn how to gently but quickly throttle the engine up a little at the same time your clutching and coming out of the higher gear and immediately going into the next lower in a rapid double-clutching fashion, then resume your braking. Note that ALL these events need to happen at almost precisely the same time and should occur inside of about 1/2 to 1 second.

    Also, when double-clutching, don't depress the clutch fully. Only depress about a half to 2/3 the way down, depending on the clutch

    It's really hard to explain in a text posting. Search youtube for "downshifting training" and other "downshifting *" related posts and you may find some help that way. Disregard all the "downshifting with jake" and other such "advanced technique" videos
     
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  5. stevep1977

    stevep1977 Road Train Member

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    LOL, couldn't help but laugh...

    He does make a great point though, don't advance to skip shifting until you practice and perfect downshifting one gear at a time.
     
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  6. plymak

    plymak Bobtail Member

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    Jan 25, 2013
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    learn your correct speeds for the gears when you double clutch it takes very little clutch if you push the clutch too far you engage the clutch brake you will never get it in gear. Clutch rev clutch. simple
     
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  7. Steve C

    Steve C Bobtail Member

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    Jan 1, 2013
    Wichita, KS
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    I've searched youtube many times but haven't found anything overly helpful. The more I read about this, the more it seems like downshifting is like juggling or something. There doesn't seem to be any substitute for practice. I would love to downshift through all the gears (like I learned in school) just for the added reps but my instructor, A) doesn't do it this way, and B) doesn't seem to want me grinding down any more of his gears than absolutely necessary.
     
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  8. mistermino

    mistermino Medium Load Member

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    Boardman, Oh
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    As long as your trainer is patient, just keep practicing. As a new trainer myself, as long as you're not a dangerous driver, I'll be extra patient in downshifting...

    Having trained 3 just-out-of-school students, your trainer is probably correct, ....you're thinking too much, lol.

    There is NOT just ONE 'answer all' magic answer to downshifting other than matching your gear to rpm to road speed. Literally MILLIONS of combinations that only time and practice will help you master.

    Your best bet is to stay focused with your current trainer for techniques, especially if they are an efficient at downshifting and don't cloud your head with even more instruction... ;)
     
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  9. STexan

    STexan Road Train Member

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    In a cursory search this is one of the better videos I found ..
    [video=youtube_share;9_9kZB5-MyM]http://youtu.be/9_9kZB5-MyM[/video]
     
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  10. jorlee

    jorlee Light Load Member

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    Here's how I was taught. Clutch is for starting and stopping only. Listen to the engine, it will help you. I learned on a 2 stroke detroit, 13 speed.

    As soon as I forgot about the clutch things went smoother. To down shift, I'd explain it as rev and throw. Basically enough rpm's to break the reverse torque to get to neutral, while doing this your putting slight pressure on the shifter, getting ready to go down to the next gear. The tricky part is not giving too much throttle so it slips right into the next lower gear.

    Give too much rpm and you'll grind gears. It's like upshifting just backwards. Upshifting you let off the throttle, while going to neutral, and wait just long enough for the rpm's to drop so it slips into gear. Some drop fast others drop slow.

    Shifting is all in timing. It takes practice, and concentration.
     
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  11. Numb

    Numb Crusty Curmudgeon

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    "all I can do is brake because I'm afraid to take my foot off the brake pedal to "give it more RPM's" I get so frustrated / panicked that I can't think about anything, so over-thinking is definitely not the problem"


    RELAX!!

    we've all been there.

    there are some days I miss also. if a 4 wheeler makes me brake too hard and my timing is off.

    we all miss a gear once in a while.

    you will get if you RELAX and just get the feel of the truck.

    It's basically just matching in what was there when you up shifted. engine rpm and road speed.

    try it bobtail at the terminal. down from top to bottom.

    no pressure and safe.
     
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