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  1. #41
    Road Train Member striker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdogpile View Post
    ..oh whatever.. the guy asked for advice and that is my advice..lie and get the job or tell the truth & stay unemployed.. its really that simple..
    bigdogpile, hmmm, yep, you sound like one. So let me enlighten and set you straight sonny boy. In 1992 I was convicted of a Class 5 Federal Felony, for which I spent 6 mos. in jail, and 4.5 yrs on supervised release, that's right I had to check in with a probation officer AT LEAST ONCE A MONTH, sometimes once a week if her hubby wasn't giving her any and she was moody. Go ahead and lie on an application, and it goes in the circular file. All of my employers have known since day 1 what my background is, guess what, that made it so much easier for them to decide to hire me. Also, if a job application asks if you have EVER been convicted of a felony, and you fail to disclose it, it is considered perjury, guess what, an application for employment is technically a legal document, and while you are not under oath, you are swearing that the information is true and correct to the best of your knowledge. If they want to know, it's very easy for them to find out. I will guarantee, your employers truck insurance carrier knows more about your background than your own mother does and they didn't ask you, they researched it. Hell, for $39.95, with just your name and home state I can find out everything about you, from your MVR to your credit report, CLUE report, and your blood type, with a little digging even your pants size, shoe size, and preferred color of underwear. If you don't think this crap is important to an employer, think again. We hired 3 drivers 3 weeks ago, this morning they fired one on the spot, seems he lied on his application about why he left his last job, he said the company laid him off, no, he was fired for lying about damaging customer property. We had to submit a written request to them for his employment history and just got it back yesterday. He was fired before he even clocked in this morning.


  2. #42
    Road Train Member bigdogpile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brsims View Post
    -spongebob-squarepants-jpg

    Mr. Krabbs, Mr. Krabbs!! They said mean nasty things to me!!





    Somehow, I feel there may be a banhammer in my near future. But I just can't help myself at times....
    Oh this is AWESOME dude !!!! Love the pic, can I have it, oh nevermind I got it already..!!

  3. #43
    Road Train Member bigdogpile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brsims View Post
    Yes, but your "advice" has the distinct possibility of leading to criminal or civil charges, as well as ensuring that the recipient of said advice will not work as a driver once he gets caught. Perhaps we should keep our advice in the realms of the legal, hmm?
    I wasn't giving out "legal"advice, that's something only a lawyer can do , and this is not the " ask the lawyer" forum ...So if you dont agree with "my" advice fine, you dont have to "follow" it, and neither does the OP..he is a grown man who, you would think can make is own decisions on how to proceed ..10/4 there supertrucker?
    Last edited by bigdogpile; 04.03.2013 at 07.56 AM.

  4. #44
    Road Train Member bigdogpile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by striker View Post
    bigdogpile, hmmm, yep, you sound like one. So let me enlighten and set you straight sonny boy. In 1992 I was convicted of a Class 5 Federal Felony, for which I spent 6 mos. in jail, and 4.5 yrs on supervised release, that's right I had to check in with a probation officer AT LEAST ONCE A MONTH, sometimes once a week if her hubby wasn't giving her any and she was moody. Go ahead and lie on an application, and it goes in the circular file. All of my employers have known since day 1 what my background is, guess what, that made it so much easier for them to decide to hire me. Also, if a job application asks if you have EVER been convicted of a felony, and you fail to disclose it, it is considered perjury, guess what, an application for employment is technically a legal document, and while you are not under oath, you are swearing that the information is true and correct to the best of your knowledge. If they want to know, it's very easy for them to find out. I will guarantee, your employers truck insurance carrier knows more about your background than your own mother does and they didn't ask you, they researched it. Hell, for $39.95, with just your name and home state I can find out everything about you, from your MVR to your credit report, CLUE report, and your blood type, with a little digging even your pants size, shoe size, and preferred color of underwear. If you don't think this crap is important to an employer, think again. We hired 3 drivers 3 weeks ago, this morning they fired one on the spot, seems he lied on his application about why he left his last job, he said the company laid him off, no, he was fired for lying about damaging customer property. We had to submit a written request to them for his employment history and just got it back yesterday. He was fired before he even clocked in this morning.
    Yes, very true you can get all kinds of info off the internet, And if its on the net it must be true, right?
    Last edited by bigdogpile; 04.03.2013 at 02.24 AM.

  5. #45
    Light Load Member sexystuff911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdogpile View Post
    I wasn't giving out legal advice, that's something only a lawyer can do , and this is not the " ask the lawyer" forum ...So if you dont agree with "my" advice fine, you dont have to "follow" it, and neither does the OP..he is a grown man who, you would think can make is own decisions on how to proceed ..10/4 there supertrucker?
    Bigdogpile,

    I'm the original OP, I'm not a boy, and the story I wrote was not about myself. The felon in that story was completely fictional.

    People with felonies who are trying to re-enter the work force just happens to be a topic that is dear to my heart. I have spent the past year mentoring new hires (most of whom have felonies on their records) for my employer.

    I agree with you that nobody should have to work for free. Unfortunately being underpaid, or not paid at all, is a daily reality for ex-offenders. There are a few companies who are known for giving "second chances" to ex-offenders, and those who do are equally known for their ill treatment of employees and shady employment practices.

    Companies know they can "ripoff" ex-offenders because they know ex-offenders have so few employment options.That's why removing barriers to employment for ex-offenders is so important!

    If a felon has an equal chance at any job for which they are qualified, they won't be concentrated at the "bad" companies and the"bad" companies won't have an endless pool of low-wage or under-paid workers who are only there because they can't get a job somewhere else due to their felonies.

    "Bad" companies will have to start treating their employees better (or risk having no employees), and the increased competition at "good" companies will raise wages.

    I commend the FedEx driver who overcame 8 years of incarceration and went to work as an Independent Contractor for FedEx Custom Critical! Way to go!!!! That's awesome!

    I'm familiar with FedEx and their stringent hiring practices. and working for them is an honor! FedEx is also one of the better paying employers for felons and non-felons, alike! That FedEx driver is proof of what former felons are capable of achieving when given a chance! I thank him for sharing his story!

    Bigdogpile, I ask that you not suggest that felons lie on their applications. People with felony records are often faced with long job searches and loads of rejection. They usually have more than a family to feed... they are saddled in debt (back child support, ect), living in unstable housing (couch surfing or half-way houses), and their conditions of parole often demand they find a job within x-months or be returned to prison.

    Add to that the sheer pressure of a family who is hoping for the best, but braced for the worst; the loss of all your friends (because you can't go back to your old neighborhood if you really want to change yourself}; increased "stop and frisks" by police who keep seeing you roaming the neighborhoods (even though you are looking for work); the hard-nosed parole officer who sees all the "stop and frisks" and thinks you are casing small businesses....

    In other words, people with felonies tend to get desperate due to their circumstances, and that desperation can cause them to try anything suggested if they think it will land them a job. Bigdogpile, your suggestion that ex-offenders lie about their background on job applications is criminal. You know, if you have really been a trucker for ??? years you claim, that the lie will be discovered and the felon fired instantly (and probably never get another job, driving or otherwise) as a result.

    I beg anyone with a felony record NOT to lie on their application!!! There are honest ways to address your background that may even set you apart as the better applicant during the interview! YES! The BETTER applicant BECAUSE you have a FELONY RECORD!

    How does your incarceration, and subsequent felony record, make you the better applicant? Because you have a proven tract record for enduring extreme stress, living in confined spaces, dealing with all sorts of people (a guy being a jerk at a loading dock is nothing compared to a guy who wants to shank you because he thinks you didn't "respect" him).

    You've learned a life of conformity while in prison, you respect the rules, even if you don't agree with them... you value freedom... you understand hard work and the need for clear, concise communication... you are not a whiner... you don't challenge authority...

    As an ex-offender, you bring proven attributes to the table that a whiny, snot faced college kid who has never held a "real" job cannot. And, these attributes are the attributes that hiring managers value!

    No hiring manager wants to hire the whiny guy whose hand he may have to hold for the next six months. They want to hire the competent, capable guy who they can trust to get the job done. What more proof do they need than the person you present? Your background is a living testament to your capability and endurance!

    The trick is not to dwell on your past... don't grovel about it or address it at length in an interview. You take the negative, the fact you've been to prison, and turn it into a positive by presenting all the ways it has made you the more competent and responsible hire... Use your prison experience to show case your respect for the law and conformity to the rules, for example...

    Again, I recommend the book Jail to Jobs by Eric Mayo. The book provides practice scripts and addresses topics I have not covered, such as how to list time spent in prison on the Residential History portion of the application.

    This thread got really heated, really fast. I don't want to fan the flames. However, I do want to ask Bigdogpile why he is so threatened by felons in the workplace? I understand there are some members of TTR report who have, for instance, been the victims of violent crime and therefore have reason to be a bit hostile about the topic. But, from what I've read, Bigdogpile does not fall into the "crime victims" classification.

    Bigdog, if you are as competent and successful as you present yourself, and don't have personal cause to dislike felons (such as being a crime victim), then why are you so hostile towards ex-offenders? Why would you knowingly give out bad advice and tell people to lie when you know it will get them fired? Are you really that insecure about your own job or capabilities that you feel threatened by a convicted felon competing EQUALLY for your job??

    I care deeply about the topic of ex-offenders and removing barriers to their employment. And, the TTR is a reputable forum. People come here seeking advise from experienced professionals in the industry.

    Please
    refrain from hijacking my thread with childish antics and games that distract from the topic I raised. And, don't diminish this conversation with wild accusations, bad advise, or by degrading people and their companies. Comments such as those you have made are personally offensive and make the whole industry look bad.

    Thank you.












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  7. #46
    Road Train Member brsims's Avatar
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    To Sexystuff911,

    I would like to provide a full response to your post, but I wasn't going to quote it because the would simple eat up too much space, so here goes:

    1. Thank you for your work in attempting to help people with criminal pasts try to move past them and join (or rejoin, as the case may be) productive society. Far too many people refuse to offer second chances. I will admit to being one of those people, but that is due to having been "burned" too often in the past by recidivists. It doesn't take long to develop an attitude against all ex-cons due to the actions of a few. It isn't fair to the rest, but the risks have far outweighed the benefits for me.

    2. One of the best directions you could move in (in my opinion, at least. Which is worth approximately a five gallon bucket of farts) is to work to change both society and the corrections system to the view of actual rehabilitation rather than simple incarceration. Many, many studies have shown that crime has a root cause in poverty, and poverty has a root cause in the lack of opportunities. Whether these opportunities come from lack of education (fixable), employment sources (somewhat fixable), or lack of ambition (not fixable), I feel that we as a society should not 'give up' on all of those who have made mistakes in the past.

    There are some crimes that I think should have to undergo a strict rehabilitation program and encounter a serious degree of difficulty before being offered a chance in the trucking industry. DUI's, drug charges, and similar don't belong here. The chances of repeat occurrences are too great. That said, we do have some drivers here, and I have known some drivers personally who have walked completely away from their addictions and become some of the safest drivers I know. But we far too often see the results of offering others the same chance without having to work for it. Recently in Oregon comes to mind.

    Additionally, I do not believe that the costs of education for these people should be born on the backs of the taxpayers. Have them take out student loans like the rest of us, and pay back the costs of their education from the results of their honest work. If people have to work to get something, they will generally respect it much better over having it handed to them. But I also believe that those incarcerated should be put to work to pay for the costs of their incarceration, rather than living off my wallet and paycheck.

    3. Yes, there are companies that take deliberate advantage of former convicts. But the activities of those companies is blatantly illegal. One thought would be to set up a means of communication between yourself or office and those people you have placed in these companies, so your people have someone they can report these activities to. You could then work with the appropriate state agencies to have these illegal activities brought to an end. Yes, this may end in the company in question may end up shutting down and placing your guys out of work. But that is the unfortunate price that must be paid at times to get illegal companies off the road.

  8. #47
    Light Load Member sexystuff911's Avatar
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    I want to emphasize that barriers to employment for ex-offenders hurt everybody in the industry! Just like illegal immigration lowers wages because it creates an endless supply of people willing to do the work for less, barriers to employment for ex-offenders lowers wages by (again) creating an endless pool of people willing to do the work for less!

    Removing the barriers to employment for ex-offenders and allowing them to compete EQUALLY for jobs creates a larger, and stronger, pool of candidates, which increases competition, which forces companies to pay more for top talent. Hiring ex-offenders eliminates the pool of cheap labor companies are currently utilizing and raises wages for everybody!

    I was so distracted by the offensive comments Bigdogpile made in his posts, I lost tract of the main point of my response. I apologize for the confusing progression of my thoughts!

  9. #48
    Road Train Member brsims's Avatar
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    If BigDogPile bugs you that much, and I can certainly see how he could, put him on your ignore list. That way you won't get exposed to his ignorance.

    The only reason I haven't done it is because occasionally I find that poking holes in his idiocy is a great source of stress relief.....plus its fun to watch him scream and pout when someone else proves him wrong....

  10. #49
    Light Load Member sexystuff911's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=brsims;3204156]To Sexystuff911,

    1. Thank you for your work in attempting to help people with criminal pasts try to move past them and join (or rejoin, as the case may be) productive society. Far too many people refuse to offer second chances. I will admit to being one of those people, but that is due to having been "burned" too often in the past by recidivists. It doesn't take long to develop an attitude against all ex-cons due to the actions of a few. It isn't fair to the rest, but the risks have far outweighed the benefits for me.

    Dear brsims,

    I appreciate your thoughtful and hoest response. I will not quote your entire response for the same reason you stated (space). I’m also going to break my thoughts into more time-permitting parts.

    I couldn't agree with you more on several of the points you made...

    I understand your reluctance to hire ex-offenders on several levels, some of which you did not mention. The first is the high cost involved in recruiting, interviewing, and checking the backgrounds of employment candidates.

    Then, there's the risk of entrusting somebody with expensive equipment and valuable freight, as well as entrusting your customer base to them. I know you can't put a price on keeping good customers!

    Add liability for your employee’s acts, and then the recidivism rate. Yes, I understand your position completely. Honestly, I can't blame you because I have also been burned!

    I let my next door neighbor's adult son (26 years old and a convicted felon) rent a room in my house, which essentially meant he rented the whole house for the price of a room because I only came home from the road for one month twice a year (December and August).

    The house had been newly remodeled (interior paint, room addition, new carpets and floors, remodeled bathrooms and kitchen, new appliances). I had only lived in my newly remodeled house/walked on my new carpets for a total of one month prior to his moving in.

    He moved in December. He quit paying the full rent ($500.00) by August. I liked the kid and made payment arrangements with him before I went back over-the-road in September. I thought he was trying (silly me…). I never received another dime of rent money.

    I returned home that December. My new carpets were completely destroyed, soaked with cat urine and stained. My couches were clawed and sprayed with cat urine. My new appliances were charred by a kitchen fire. There were holes in the walls and broken down cars in the back yard. Then, I learned the county had been posting violations on the doors for months, which he ignored. And so, the county cleaned the front yard and billed my property taxes (along with the fines, etc.).

    I hired a lawyer. It took me another three months to evict him. During this time, I was forced to resign from my employer on the East Coast. I simply couldn’t protect California home from all the drama that was ensuing while driving a truck on the other side of the country.

    Total rent collected = $2,500.00
    Total deposit collected = $0
    Unpaid rent amount = $7,000.00
    Damages to house = $10,000.00
    Lawyer & Court = $2,000.00

    Total damages = $20, 150.00

    I'll never recover my money because he went back to prison and will be unemployable if released.

    Did I mention the 40 ounce beer bottles he dropped down the furnace vents from the upper level of the house to hide them from his parole officer? Unknowingly, I returned home in the cold of December and turned on my furnace. The bottles sucked into the squirrel cage and did whatever bottles do in the squirrel cage of a furnace (Sorry, I'm not an HVAC technician). Rendered my furnace inoperable all winter (couldn't afford repairs on top of everything else). This was my neighbor's son!

    I'm telling you this story so that you realize I'm not advocating employing felons from behind rose-colored glasses. I understand your aversion and the financial risks. I’ve had some bad experiences myself… (reference above story…)

    However, there are some means by which companies can extend employment to QUALIFIED, DESERVING candidates and minimize their risks (I’ll address these another time).

    I agree that both society and corrections need to move away from incarceration and towards actual rehabilitation. The cost of incarceration is unsustainable, a fact which many states are just starting to acknowledge and trying to correct. But, there are some serious problems with our system. For instance, courts who send petty criminals (college kids who get caught experimenting with drugs) to prison and turning them into convicts.

    Prisons are training grounds and new entries are often scared and vulnerable. Suddenly, who you know (the bigger and badder, the better) can be the difference between life and death (or rape). Then, the prison spits them back into society emotionally scarred and unemployable. Its only a matter of time before many gravitate toward their fellow parolees and into a life of crime. The cycle is born.

    Speaking of drug crimes… People with substance abuse issues should be released from prison straight into in-house drug treatment programs. It doesn’t do any good to release an addict from prison and back into the “hood” with the promise of drug treatment at a later date when a bed becomes available.

    Furthermore, people with drug addiction issues should have first options of these drug treatment facilities, not the wife-beater whose high-priced attorney got him a spot in the program instead of sending him to a half-way house with the "down and out" criminals who have no home.

    Finally, I think there is a problem with our plea-bargain system. People accused of crimes for the first time are often scared and not thinking straight. They just want to get "it" over and plea guilty to charges without understanding the ramifications. And no, not all private attorneys have their client’s best interests at heart. Some will collect a large retainer, and then tell the accused to plea-guilty to shaky, but reduced, charges so he can walk away with a large sum of money he didn't really have to work for.

    No, I don’t think taxpayers should shoulder the burden of educating felons entirely. But, I also think anybody receiving public assistance should have to drug test regularly to continue receiving benefits. I have to drug test to work. Why shouldn't they have to drug test to get free money in the form of my hard-earned tax dollars?

    Sorry, I digress...

    It's true that if people have to work for something, they ill generally respect it much better than if they have it handed to them. The problem is the people who work hard for something, but then are denied it on the basis of something they did five or ten years ago.


    There are many things that we, as a society, can do to improve employment opportunities for ex-offenders. But, let’ start with what you can do personally…

    The next time you receive a resume from an ex-offender that appears qualified or like he may be serious about changing his life, pick up the phone and give him a call. You don’t have to hire him. Just acknowledge his efforts. Maybe discuss what else he can do to improve his opportunities for hire at other companies. A little kindness can go a long ways in changing someone’s life.

    A five minute phone call is also good public relations and advertising. I have heard ex-offenders rave for months, sometimes years, about “that cool hiring manager at company XYZ who couldn’t hire him (due to his background) but took the time to call and discuss his career anyways”.

    If you fear getting caught in some long-winded conversation, you can send a quick, personal note acknowledging their efforts towards rehabilitation.

    Remember, the loss of hope is often a precursor violent crime. The few minutes you take today could change a life tomorrow. It would cost you nothing, has the potential to save society money, and you might even enjoy the conversation!

    Again, thank you for your honest thoughts about this topic. I think the first step to understanding an issue is society's willingness to have an open dialog about the problem and possible solutions!

  11. #50
    Light Load Member sexystuff911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brsims View Post
    If BigDogPile bugs you that much, and I can certainly see how he could, put him on your ignore list. That way you won't get exposed to his ignorance.

    The only reason I haven't done it is because occasionally I find that poking holes in his idiocy is a great source of stress relief.....plus its fun to watch him scream and pout when someone else proves him wrong....
    Bigdogpile rubbed a nerve raw this morning! I don't usually get that irritated at people's comments... and Lord knows I've read more offensive ones than his! And yes, it is funny!!!

    Hey, I learned how to insert a smiley face! Hee hee hee!!!

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