Questions About God & The Bible You Have Never Gotten A Good Answer To - Page 6 - Truckers' Trucking Forum

TruckrsWife · **^ Top** #51 09.17.2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by noble one

Nana, I have no doubt that you are a woman of great faith but I have one bone to pick with you about your little sermonette.
Everything I am about to say is very clear in the bible and I say nothing that I can not back up with lots of scripture.
The result of the fall of man into a state of sin left Adam and Eve and all of their decendents spiritually dead. There was no possibility of any kind of a relationship with God because of this spiritual death in the natural man. The bible refers to this state in various ways, A dead heart, a heart of stone. We call this the unregenerate man. Man in this state does not have the capacity to believe in the Gospel. As it says in the bible," The things of God are NONSENCE to the NATURAL man. Jesus said, "even if a man rises from the dead they will not believe. So what do these things mean and why do I pick a bone with you about them?
In your little sermonette, three times you use the phrase"I choose". How is it possible for a person with a "Dead heart" that understands not the things of God to choose anything. We who are so throughly tainted through and through to our innermost being with sin Choose to have a relationship with a HOLY GOD that can not face any sin no matter what. No Nana you were chosen by Him. Ephesians 1:4-6 "For he chose us in Him before the foundation of the world To be holy and blamless in His sight. In Love He predistined us To be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ in accordance with His pleasure and will to the praise of His glorious grace which he has freely given us in the One He loves". Notice the word ADOPTED. Babies are adopted by their parents by the choice of the parents. No child chooses their adoptive parents. There is also another very important biblical principal here and that is the principle that we are saved by grace and not by works. If we made an intellectual decision to be a Christian, that would be a salvation of works. As an aside to what I'm saying here it follows that many people that believe that they have chosen God also believe that you can lose your salvation. It logically follows that if you can do something to get saved you can also do something to get unsaved. The bible is very clear on this point however that we are secure in our salvation and that Jesus will not lose one of His own.
Everything that I'm saying here ties into the general theme of the thread about the understanding of the things of God. "The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom" as it says in proverbs. The natural man can not understand anything about God. So what are we as Christians called to do? Well we are called to preach the Gospel and to live our own lives as a witness to the unsaved.
Paul says that "By the foolishness of preaching men are saved" The unsaved hears the good news and then GOD does HIS supernatural work of turning a heart of stone into a heart of flesh. In other words He regenerates the man to a spiritually alive condition which imparts the GIFT of faith and the man believes. It's as possible for the spiritually dead man to believe as it is for the physically dead man to will hinself back to life.
Now Nana I don't want you to think that I think that I am one bit better a Christian than anyone else because I'm not. A proper understanding of our own salvation though does a great deal in helping us realizing just how blessed we are that God chose to save us even when we were totally lost in our sins. It should create a humbleness in us and cause us to look at the lost with love and compassion. Amazing grace how sweet the sound, that saved a WRETCH like me. I once was LOST but now I'm FOUND. Twas BLIND but now I SEE. My god bless you all.

Noble One, I am responding from the emergency room, I totally agree with you. Are you shocked? I am.

They're getting ready to use the paddles on me now. Wow, we actually found a common ground, I'm overwhelmed.

You put it quite eloquently I might add. I agree 100% that we are secure in our salvation.

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand."

He says "no one" and He means no one.

Now Nana, you are right also. We do walk in faith. With God's Holy Spirit indwelling us we can do things we never could on our own and occasionally we stumble and fall, but He's right there to pick us up and dust us off and continue to love us in spite of ourselves. God does draw us near to Him. I am so thankful that He did choose me, a lowly sinner (and lately, on the politics threads, a very lowly sinner indeed, shame on me). I can't picture my life without Him. I feel so sorry for those who choose to reject Him when He does draw them near, there's a spiritual void that only He can fill. At that point all we can do is pray for them.

I don't know if you think we can lose our salvation because I've not heard you talk about that so I don't understand why Noble One made mention of this. But I agree with both of you, I think your language might be a little different from Noble One's being you both have differing religions you subscribe to or not. And Nana, you have given much of yourself to those in need and this is an awesome testimony, this is your gift from God, not everyone can do what you've done.

I believe God is well pleased with both of you.

soonk · **^ Top** #52 09.17.2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kansas

You guys wanna see the head of a God less liberal explode? Watch this...

Ok mr science guy, tell me this. The first rule of science simply states; "You can not create something from nothing". You can not argue this rule, it is scientifically irrefutable.

Now, tell me where we came from? The correct answer is, there is no answer, and your beliefs are no more provable than those that belive in God.

Why do you chose to ignore your own physics lessons lol.

how did this turn into a political conversation? you must be out of logic already if you have to start throwing around political labels to make me look bad. doesn't really help your argument if you ask me, especially if you're going to preface your argument with something like that. just saying.

so, mr non-science guy, tell me where you found the "rules of science," because I don't know anything about these, nor could I find anything on them. did you just make up your own set of rules or what?

if you are referring to the laws of thermodynamics or the law of conservation, then I have already covered this. logic concludes that if mass/energy cannot be created nor destroyed, then it remains constant, and if we and the universe exist, then we(collective term for universe) have always existed.

I did not "chose" to ignore physics lessons, you choose to fail in understanding them. you want to throw physics out here, but expect people to believe god created everything from nothing. very scientific.

science 'proves' nothing. proofs are for math. instead, it offers the best solution based on observable evidence. religion, on the other hand, offers solutions based on zero evidence, and condemns you for not believing it. I can never prove there is no god, just as you cannot prove there is no santa claus, tooth fairy, leprechaun, vampire, fairy, unicorn, werewolf, etc. you claim that something does exist, however, so the burden is on you to prove it.

I still don't get why you resorted to personal attacks from the get-go. I thought this conversation was going pretty smoothly.

noble one · **^ Top** #53 09.17.2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by truckerdave1970

A couple questions:
1. If God is perfect (assuming He is), why does He desire my obediance and worship? That seems to indicate a need and therefore not perfect?
2. Does God truly loves us unconditionally? If God loves us unconditionaly, why are so many of his children suffering? As a parent myself, I would do anything in my power to keep my children from suffering.
3. I believe there is a battle over my soul as I have experienced the attacks from the enemy firsthand, but why is there that battle?
4. Why am I so important to God as to be fought over, yet seemingly so unimportant that I dont feel protected or helped by Him?
5. I believe I was saved, but I think I have lost my salvation due to sin. Is that thinking correct?
6. When, if ever, will I experience the freedom from sin or temptation?
7. Where is the hope that so many People of faith have that I dont?
I know that's alot of questions. If I had the time, I'd ask a pastor or someone like that.

I will give you the best answer that I can for question 3.
All of life is a spiritual battle. Satan who is refered to in the bible as the "god of this world" in other words the Master of all who are not the real children of God desires to thwart the plans and purposes of God Almighty. To that end he will do what he can to prevent people from coming to God in the first place, to no avail I must add because all God's children will be brought safely into the sheep fold by Him. With the saved he will do what he can to ruin their lives and their testimony. He even attempted to destroy Jesus like he did Adam during the Lord's forty days in the wilderness. If you think that there is a battle going on for your soul you have to be sure of your salvation in Jesus first of all. If you believe in the Gospel and have put your trust in the promises of God through Jesus. If you have truly repented of your sins and asked Gods forgivness for them. If you desire a closer walk with the Lord, then you are saved and nothing Satan can do can change that. If you have not trusted in the Lord and that is bothering you then you need to do that right now.
Once we are saved then we become a special target of Satan and his host of demons. We are not powerless though as we have God's Holy spirit dwelling within us. He impowers us to overcome temptation and defeat the devil's plans to undo us. Jesus tells us resist the devil and he will flee from you. The bible also tells us that God will not allow temptations beyond what we can bear.
I would also like to point out that our own sinful natures lead us down many crooked paths. Our lusts,our selfishness, our self centeredness and many other aspects of our corrupted flesh are at war with our spirit. That is what the bible is refering to when it says, " The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak". This will continue as long as we inhabit these weak vessels that we are born with. We can however be victorious in Jesus as we work out our salvation in trembeling and fear. As we try to become more like Him we can win some victories over sin as He impowers us to.
I hope that this answer will shed some light on the question that you asked and may God bless you and yours.

ConservativeDemocrat · **^ Top** #54 09.17.2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kansas

You guys wanna see the head of a God less liberal explode? Watch this...

Ok mr science guy, tell me this. The first rule of science simply states; "You can not create something from nothing". You can not argue this rule, it is scientifically irrefutable.

Now, tell me where we came from? The correct answer is, there is no answer, and your beliefs are no more provable than those that belive in God.

Why do you chose to ignore your own physics lessons lol.

I like to play political debates but not here. Seriously, take it to the Political section please and not here. I will stir the pot there but not here. I do say things people might disagree with but we never get heated or insulting in this section.

Texas-Nana · **^ Top** #55 09.17.2009

T'W, actually you said what I was trying to get across to him....we were speaking of seperate issues. Had he ASKED me what I believe I WOULD have told him.....but instead he simply decided to tell me what I believe.

I love ya.

Now......I'd appreciate it if this argument/discussion was moved to another thread or ended as it's distracting from this very GOOD thread that is going on.

Thanks

goin2fast10 · **^ Top** #56 09.17.2009

Good discussion guys...and gals, keep it up.

JahB · **^ Top** #57 09.17.2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by truckerdave1970

A couple questions:
1. If God is perfect (assuming He is), why does He desire my obedience and worship? That seems to indicate a need and therefore not perfect.

To my mind, if God is truly perfect, that alone would be reason enough to worship Him, as we are so clearly NOT perfect. Christians are not coerced to worship, and I don't think it's something God desires out of need. To my mind, God is without desire or need.

The call to worship is only a demand the way God's other moral laws are demands. We don't murder because it's morally right not to. It happens to be one of the Ten Commandments, and it happens to be good for us not to kill each other. If God was vain, He'd want us to put up pictures and statues, but another commandment tells us not to make images of him and worship them, or any others. Instead of images, or golden calves, he gave us the Ten Commandments to remember and to obey because they are good for us. He inhabited the body of a human, and willingly gave up that body, in order to show us that our consciousness, or minds and hearts are greater than the body itself, that we can aspire to perfection. Though we my never attain it, we are nonetheless perfect expressions of God, living in an imperfect vessel.

Worship, being one of the commands, must be an activity that reminds us of that, that impels us toward that perfection, and is thus, good for us. Ask a person who worships if it makes them feel closer to God, or as though they are in some way, more perfected in a spiritual, intellectual, and emotional sense. If they don't, why would they bother? Surely, not for show. God forbid!

God does not coerce us to worship. He invites us to. God allows us to doubt his very existence, so vanity is not the issue. Coercion is a threat that causes a person to do something they would not have done otherwise. As a Christian, worshiping God is in our best interest. I think God would have us worship out of love, not out of fear. There are people who choose not to worship God, and others who choose to worship out of a genuine desire. God does not need for us to worship him, we are not commanded to say how great God is five times a day, or stand in a certain way or place to do it. If we worship, it is because we choose to, and because it is good for us to do so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by truckerdave1970

2. Does God truly loves us unconditionally? If God loves us unconditionally, why are so many of his children suffering? As a parent myself, I would do anything in my power to keep my children from suffering.

IMO: It's God's intention that we live life fully. We "chose to leave Eden", I prefer to think of it as we could not help ourselves from becoming conscious and aware of ourselves. The life we "chose" in doing that happens to include awareness of the occurrence, and our own commission of things we or others don't like, or that are painful, even evil. He gives us the means to cope with it. We became "rational" and that put us in the position of having to consider cause and effect in depth, and to have to endure life consciously, rather than innocently, as animals do. The un-conditionality of His love is that we are always His creation, and can always come to Him, no matter what happens to us, no matter what we do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by truckerdave1970

3. I believe there is a battle over my soul as I have experienced the attacks from the enemy firsthand, but why is there that battle?

Look at how much evil has been done also in the name of God. This evil is caused by man's rebellion against God. When we experience it as "the enemy" battling for our souls, I'd say, it's just rebellion against what we instinctively know to be good, because that knowledge is in us, and evil is self evident in the harm it causes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by truckerdave1970

4. Why am I so important to God as to be fought over, yet seemingly so unimportant that I dont feel protected or helped by Him?

You are only protected to the extent you believe you are, and even that isn't guaranteed to keep you insulated from sin or evil, from within, or from without. When that belief is strong, it sometimes allows people to do things, and be in places, or with people that could or should logically cause them harm, yet it doesn't. Is that God intervening, or is it something about the person themselves, in their belief, that causes evil to be deterred? To a point, yet even the most devout and most loving are killed or harmed by the evil around them, sometimes, even from the evil within themselves. I'd say it's a function of that person's belief that God is with them in some way, and that to a point, it's effective. Could be that's the origin or purpose of the verses in Luke chapter 4:
And he (Satan) brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence: For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee: And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. And Jesus answering said unto him (Satan), It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Quote:

Originally Posted by truckerdave1970

5. I believe I was saved, but I think I have lost my salvation due to sin. Is that thinking correct?

No.
Not to God.
You can change how you think about that.
Anytime, even right now.
Trust what you know to be true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by truckerdave1970

6. When, if ever, will I experience the freedom from sin or temptation?

For frustratingly limited periods of time when your mind and heart are truly focused on God, when the love within you is near the surface of your consciousness. Other than that, only when you die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by truckerdave1970

7. Where is the hope that so many People of faith have that I dont?

In the minds and hearts of those people of faith. It lives there because they choose to allow it, and to nurture it. Your feeling that you don't have it comes from within yourself, as would the feeling the you do have it. PS: I assert that you do have it, or you wouldn't be "here".

God bless.

_ton bundle · **^ Top** #58 09.17.2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kansas

You guys wanna see the head of a God less liberal explode? Watch this...

Ok mr science guy, tell me this. The first rule of science simply states; "You can not create something from nothing". You can not argue this rule, it is scientifically irrefutable.

Now, tell me where we came from? The correct answer is, there is no answer, and your beliefs are no more provable than those that belive in God.

Why do you chose to ignore your own physics lessons lol.

Here's another vote to keep the politics 'upstairs' and out of this forum. You have a whole section of this board dedicated to politics. We all know where to find the politics forum if we feel so inclined.

As others have pointed out, the 'first rule of science' (whatever you mean by that) is actually the opposite of "You cannot create something from nothing." The law of conservation of matter and energy states that matter and energy can not be created nor destroyed. ( [LINK POSTED BY MEMBER] Only Members Can View This Truck Forum Link. )

I don't think you could possibly be more wrong if you tried. I actually had to read your post twice to make sure you were being serious. No heads are exploding, but plenty of eyes are rolling. LOL

noble one · **^ Top** #59 09.17.2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by truckerdave1970

A couple questions:
1. If God is perfect (assuming He is), why does He desire my obediance and worship? That seems to indicate a need and therefore not perfect?
2. Does God truly loves us unconditionally? If God loves us unconditionaly, why are so many of his children suffering? As a parent myself, I would do anything in my power to keep my children from suffering.
3. I believe there is a battle over my soul as I have experienced the attacks from the enemy firsthand, but why is there that battle?
4. Why am I so important to God as to be fought over, yet seemingly so unimportant that I dont feel protected or helped by Him?
5. I believe I was saved, but I think I have lost my salvation due to sin. Is that thinking correct?
6. When, if ever, will I experience the freedom from sin or temptation?
7. Where is the hope that so many People of faith have that I dont?
I know that's alot of questions. If I had the time, I'd ask a pastor or someone like that.

I'm going to take a stab at question #1
The God of the bible is perfect in all ways. He is Holy, Holy, Holy. He is Almighty, He is Omnipresent, {everywhere}, He knows everything that has ever happened or will happen. He is all powerful, He created the universe by a word, His plans are perfect and can not be thwarted.
When I contemplate the Greatness of God I am so humbled at my lowlyness. If I could compare the difference between God and a man it would be something like this. If you look at the difference between a single bacteria and a blue whale and then you take that difference and multiply it by 10 to the power of a million, {a larger number than there are atoms in the universe} we would still not even be approaching the difference. The fact that God desires our worship does not indicate a need on his part but does indicate a need on our part. God made us and he knows what is good for us. He knows that man needs to worship his maker. Have you ever wondered about God's laws. Why has God said "Thou shalt not". Does He just want to spoil all of our fun. When He says not to commit adultury He knows it will hurt us. He knows it will destroy marriages and families. All of God's laws are for our good not His. He is self sufficient He needs nothing.
Does it not just blow your mind that we lowly human beings who are so tiny,small and powerless when compared to God can come to know Him personally and that this same Mighty God ,Ruler of the universe, Caused Himself to be born as one of us. Not only that but He was born a helpless infant in order to show His Perfect love to sinful people who he would make His own people by His perfect and sovereign Will. He did this by His perfect method. He Himself suffered the penalty for every sin ever committed by every one of his people from the beginning to the end.
Does this thought not make you tremble. It does to me and I just look up and praise His glorious name.
Our God is an awesome God, He reigns from heaven above. With wisdom power and love. Our God is an awesome GOD.

smurf-316 · **^ Top** #60 09.17.2009

For all the people who don't believe in god or his plan, I have some good news.....

You might not believe in him. But HE believes in you!

Man has always thought he was smarter than god. man has always said "I don't need god. I can figure it out myself." But don't worry. In the end, Man will get EXACTLY what he's always wanted. A world WITHOUT god.

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