OOIDA and the HOS - Truckers' Trucking Forum | Message Board

Cybergal · **^ Top** #1 12.24.2007

New focus needed after HOS decision

Quote:

If the federal government ever wants to make meaningful strides in reducing driver fatigue, OOIDA says the lack of regard for drivers’ time must still be addressed.
Trucker Walter Krupski delivered that message for the Owner-Operator Independent Drivers Association Wednesday, Dec. 19, in his testimony in a hearing before the Senate Subcommittee on Surface Transportation and Merchant Marine Safety, Security, and Infrastructure on the hours-of-service regulations.
Krupski, a senior member of OOIDA, told committee members that the Association supports the decision of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration to keep both the 11-hour option and allowing the more widely used 34-hour restart. But, in order for driver fatigue to become a non-issue, there is much more that FMCSA must address, according to Krupski and OOIDA leaders.

Under the current hours-of-service rule, OOIDA contends, drivers must give up work and compensation if they pull off the road to rest during the work day.
“If all stakeholders were fully vested in the rules and all drivers were able to fully comply with the regulations without fear of some type reprisal, there would be a sea change in the industry,” said Krupski.
“If drivers were compensated for all of the work they do, drivers’ time would become valuable and shippers would be forced to streamline their operations to minimize loading and unloading time. A new approach is needed if Congress and the agency truly wish to make significant improvements in driver fatigue.”

The Association has pointed out that shippers and receivers routinely make truckers wait from two hours to two days before they are allowed to load or unload their trucks. Some even require drivers to perform warehouse work such as restacking pallets. Not only is such work unpaid, but it essentially steals the time that drivers have under the HOS rules to do the work they are actually paid for; driving the truck.
In 1995, Congress asked the Department of Transportation to examine whether it should have authority over shippers and receivers to effectively enforce the safety regulations.
“The DOT never submitted to Congress or otherwise published an examination of this issue,” testified Krupski. “Motor carriers have historically been unwilling to remedy the problems associated with loading and unloading abuses, and drivers are powerless to resolve them.”
The Association also believes that if drivers were compensated for both their driving and non-driving on-duty work, they would have every incentive to record all of their on-duty time, and problems with the accuracy of logbooks would disappear.

“Unless these economic issues are addressed, drivers who become disqualified from driving for violating the hours-of-service rules will simply be replaced by a new driver facing the same economic pressures,” Krupski testified.

landline

notarps4me · **^ Top** #2 12.24.2007

Good to know that at least someone knows how hard this is on the trucker. They want us to comply with the HOS, but everyone that does not drive thinks it is so easy to log it legal!

daytona45 · **^ Top** #3 12.24.2007

AMEN BROTHER AMEN!!!!!!!

LogsRus · **^ Top** #4 12.24.2007

The "customers" should be held responsible for allowing you to leave their property if you are over your hours or will be before hitting the next safe place.
It's like allowing a drunk to leave a bar, they say driving fatigue is just like a drunk driver, right? Well how can a shipper/consignee get by with it but a bar can't?
Just a thought

knighton5 · **^ Top** #5 12.25.2007

There you go, enough said!

latanea · **^ Top** #6 12.31.2007

one of the things I noticed when I went union is that without the pressure on the driver to be accountable (or makeup) time lost loading or for any other delay (mechanical etc etc) it is easy to log legal.

Also, when you are getting paid well you do not have the urge to run stupid...

another thing is that every company prior to going union talked a good game about being safe and legal - yet most every dispatch had shades of grey or were downright illegal as hell...

again once I went union all that changed - my company would not DARE dispatch someone illegal - and when the 14th hour comes you are either at home or in a motel...

OR if you are within 20 miles of home they will come and get you and the truck and bring you in.

until non union carriers start taking care of the issues - and drivers there will always be the urge or temptation to run hot... hell when I worked for dick simon that was the only way to make a decent paycheck...

having been on both sides of the fence I now realize how stupid and dangerous some of the runs I did were.

Doma · **^ Top** #7 12.31.2007

Perfect example, I was forced to wait at a shipper in chicago, I won't mention any names, but they make tubes You would run wire through, I had an 1240 pm appointtment, to be loaded with a delivery for new york, which was being dropped for delivery after christmas, this was on a thursday and I am running short on hours to get home to reset, but have enough to do so, I was forced to wait for the load for 10 hours and actually got out of there in 11.5 hours, now I am forced to make a decision either go out of service loose any revenue I would have made on the day, and never get home on time to legally reset, in other words, if I did go out of service, and got home for the weekend I would have gotten home too late to actually reset, I could have ran for a bit and reset on the road and not gone home, but this option is useless to me, #1 I don't go home, which is the deal I have with my company, I wont get paid for my weekend out at all, and I reset too soon which will screw up my oncomming week, or do I run illegal not exhausted or unsafe just not in compliance, I am sure You can guess which one I will pick, drivers are faced with this stuff all the time and I would say 90% of it has to do with things out of the drivers control, in this case the load was dispatched and brokered way b4 it was even ready to be shipped, some ambitious broker, behind a desk, wanted to hit A mark and clear a screen, end result is some driver who is trying to run good and make a good check for the week gets it up the bazooma! Bottom Line!

LogsRus · **^ Top** #8 12.31.2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by notarps4me

Good to know that at least someone knows how hard this is on the trucker. They want us to comply with the HOS, but everyone that does not drive thinks it is so easy to log it legal!

It IS easy to log legal, it's just tempting to NOT log LEGAL

U CAN DO IT!

LogsRus · **^ Top** #9 12.31.2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doma

Perfect example, I was forced to wait at a shipper in chicago, I won't mention any names, but they make tubes You would run wire through, I had an 1240 pm appointtment, to be loaded with a delivery for new york, which was being dropped for delivery after christmas, this was on a thursday and I am running short on hours to get home to reset, but have enough to do so, I was forced to wait for the load for 10 hours and actually got out of there in 11.5 hours, now I am forced to make a decision either go out of service loose any revenue I would have made on the day, and never get home on time to legally reset, in other words, if I did go out of service, and got home for the weekend I would have gotten home too late to actually reset, I could have ran for a bit and reset on the road and not gone home, but this option is useless to me, #1 I don't go home, which is the deal I have with my company, I wont get paid for my weekend out at all, and I reset too soon which will screw up my oncomming week, or do I run illegal not exhausted or unsafe just not in compliance, I am sure You can guess which one I will pick, drivers are faced with this stuff all the time and I would say 90% of it has to do with things out of the drivers control, in this case the load was dispatched and brokered way b4 it was even ready to be shipped, some ambitious broker, behind a desk, wanted to hit A mark and clear a screen, end result is some driver who is trying to run good and make a good check for the week gets it up the bazooma! Bottom Line!

I know it stinks to be in this situation, however I just want to remind you that in the court of law if you are in an accident and it wasn't "technically" your fault the accident could be your fault if proven you was over your hours of service. That is the stinky part of the logs and I just want you to know that. I am not condoning running illegal at all! You shouldn't do it, however I can't be in the truck babysitting all the truckers, I can only know I did my job and warned you of your consequences (SP?).

Notarps, SHHHHHH

LogsRus · **^ Top** #10 12.31.2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by latanea

one of the things I noticed when I went union is that without the pressure on the driver to be accountable (or makeup) time lost loading or for any other delay (mechanical etc etc) it is easy to log legal.

Also, when you are getting paid well you do not have the urge to run stupid...

I agree with this and that's the solution to all the trucking problems

another thing is that every company prior to going union talked a good game about being safe and legal - yet most every dispatch had shades of grey or were downright illegal as hell...

Now I talk the game and I mean the game, however some do not believe me because of companies you are talking about. The say run legal, however the dispatcer will say oh run 2 log books, it doesn't work like that at our company (not that I am aware of). Which many drivers get in trouble right off the bat trying the system to see if I was lieing or not, they tend to find out I was NOT lieing (even after stressing everything I will tell you today is the truth and I do not lie to you)

again once I went union all that changed - my company would not DARE dispatch someone illegal - and when the 14th hour comes you are either at home or in a motel...

GOOD COMPANY, BUT YOU GET PAID AND THAT'S GREAT AS WELL.

OR if you are within 20 miles of home they will come and get you and the truck and bring you in.

Wow that is expensive on them, however weighing the legal issue they would have if you are in an accident it's worth it

until non union carriers start taking care of the issues - and drivers there will always be the urge or temptation to run hot... hell when I worked for dick simon that was the only way to make a decent paycheck...

having been on both sides of the fence I now realize how stupid and dangerous some of the runs I did were.

Yeap and thank goodness you did not end up in prison during them illegal times

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