Serious Question about bailing out the Auto Comps. - Page 2 - Truckers' Trucking Forum | Message Board

notarps4me · **^ Top** #11 11.13.2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mooney

The Big Three got themselves into this predicament, they need to get themselves out. If they get a bailout, it's not going to matter, they still fail. They have zero incentive to change the way they conduct business. There will be a parade of companies looking for a handout, airlines, GE, health care, and on and on.

Exactly. If they want help then tell them to bring the jobs back to America. GM just opened a plant in russia not long ago. The US is losing jobs to mexico and all these other countries. They want help let them ask the people where they are taking our jobs to.

ziggystyles · **^ Top** #12 11.13.2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by notarps4me

Exactly. If they want help then tell them to bring the jobs back to America. GM just opened a plant in russia not long ago. The US is losing jobs to mexico and all these other countries. They want help let them ask the people where they are taking our jobs to.

Well I dunno if it can be that easy. First, they arent making what we want. Second, I mean crap...the big 3 are paying their workers almost 80 bucks an hour. The prices for the cars are already through the roof. What are the reasons for opening up in other countries? Is it just labor? And if so...what are we doing to do to bring those jobs back? I cant see the unions taking a decent enough pay cut to make it attractive for the companies.

knighton5 · **^ Top** #13 11.16.2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggystyles

Well I dunno if it can be that easy. First, they arent making what we want. Second, I mean crap...the big 3 are paying their workers almost 80 bucks an hour. The prices for the cars are already through the roof. What are the reasons for opening up in other countries? Is it just labor? And if so...what are we doing to do to bring those jobs back? I cant see the unions taking a decent enough pay cut to make it attractive for the companies.

I agree, and they go out of the country because of the BOTTOM LINE (money). Money is everything, Money controls everything, which is really to bad. Nobody mentioned Amtrak, dont they get a ANNUAL bailout? They probably have an open account with the Government.

Mooney · **^ Top** #14 11.16.2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by knighton5

I agree, and they go out of the country because of the BOTTOM LINE (money). Money is everything, Money controls everything, which is really to bad. Nobody mentioned Amtrak, dont they get a ANNUAL bailout? They probably have an open account with the Government.

Amtrak is a government owned corporation.

knighton5 · **^ Top** #15 11.16.2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggystyles

I had to put "serious" in there because...hey, its me in a union thread asking a question. And as such, asking a bunch of union / teamster members such a question is probably dumb because I know what the answer will be...but alas.

Just trying to get some opinions on here about the bailouts. We all know that a couple of months back, the gov rejected a 700 billion dollar bailout. A few days later, a larger bailout, closer to 1 trillion dollars (due to all the added pork to entice 'yes' votes) was passed. Since then, we have continued to additionally bailout companies left and right and daily we hear jokes amongst each other it seems, asking when WE will get a bailout ourselves as people.

Already the auto industry has recieved something like 25 billion in aid to retool their factories. Ontop of that, they want another 10 billion for a bailout (although I've heard higher figures).

Now, they are thinking of making GMAC into a bank, just like American Express did...which would allow it to..................GET additional money from the original 1 trillion dollar bailout.

Where do we draw the line here? I mean, yeah I know there are tons of jobs on the line with the automakers, but our economy is built upon a lot of "Hard working Americans" and "if you cant make it, you die" beliefs. If the automakers can't make cars people want, can't retool their own factories for such demands, can't do anything at all with research and development...and the list of "Can'ts" goes on and on.....why should the American People be forced to help them? This is the way it SHOULD work...if you can't run a company in good times and bad, then you should suffer and possibly GO out of business if it gets to that point.

The problem here is that...now we arent letting anybody fail. The gov is handing out money it doesn't have to companies left and right because they struggle? And on top of that, the drudgereport had an article last week where the Feds are refusing to show us where the money is going. I think the American people should see exactly where the money is going in rediculously insane detail.

During the elections...McCain got a lot of heat for saying that the fundamentals of our economy were strong. Well...I do believe they are. I believe that what our economy is built on, the principals that were once there, of a free market, and competition were a great foundation. Because, if someone sucked and failed...they'd go out of business and someone would step up to bat. However, as a country, we are refusing to let that happen. We are actually fighting what this economy and country was built upon. No longer are we allowing companies to fail, but we keep infusing them with wads of money left and right to seal the cracks.

What do you think?

Like LAT said, the auto industry is more then just a plant that employs a few thousand people. I cant imagine the ripple effect if we had no auto makers in the US. I say help financialy to keep them open with an oversight from an independit company to make sure the money is being used in the best way.

otherhalftw · **^ Top** #16 11.20.2008

I am sorry, but the days of the unions controlling industry are falling in the bushes. These 'bailouts' are nothing more than paying off the retired pensions, which when you consider contract law the unions will be responsible for.
How? Simple, the union requires a worker to pay dues in return for the payment, the union promises to be the workers representative and manage ALL negotiations with the company. Therefor the union has a contractual agreement with each member, retired or presently working or just presently paying dues.
If (perhaps when) the company (Big 3) files for chapter 11, the union has lost their golden spatula, no more silver spoon. By the contract with its members the union now is responsible for all agreements through their own bargaining.
It is the unions pressuring the big 3 to get these bailouts to bailout the union agreements.
I grew up in East Central Nevada, the county for the most part was employed by Kennecott Copper Corporation, when the EPA came in and forced KCC to clean the smoke emitted from the smelter stacks, the cost was too high so close down the mine, the mill, and the smelter. 6200 jobs were lost, nothing to go after but ranching. There was no bailout, not even an offer of job training.
Welcome to the real world MIchigan and all you union supporters.
Unions have an equal if not greater history of closing down operations due to their demands of the workers must get equal to owners...HORSEPUCKY!!!
I'm sorry but unions have never come to the aid of my family, or my in laws. My father-in-law lost a job in the Los Angeles area (in steel) because the union came in and forced the wages and benefits beyond the financial ability of the employer, closed the mill no bailout there either must be an East Coast thing

notarps4me · **^ Top** #17 11.20.2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggystyles

Well I dunno if it can be that easy. First, they arent making what we want. Second, I mean crap...the big 3 are paying their workers almost 80 bucks an hour. The prices for the cars are already through the roof. What are the reasons for opening up in other countries? Is it just labor? And if so...what are we doing to do to bring those jobs back? I cant see the unions taking a decent enough pay cut to make it attractive for the companies.

So, just bail them out and push the problem farther down the road? They broke it. They need to fix it.

ziggystyles · **^ Top** #18 11.20.2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by notarps4me

So, just bail them out and push the problem farther down the road? They broke it. They need to fix it.

No no, Im on the same page as you, Im totally against a bailout here...I was just asking some deep questions.

Lil Blue Pony · **^ Top** #19 11.20.2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mooney

Amtrak is a government owned corporation.

Just a comment on the RR...I can still remember my third grade teacher doing a very long explanation the the chalk board (they were black back then) about the RR being in financial trouble and how it was improtant for the govenment to bail them out and all the econoic reasons...that was third grade....I was in second grade when JFK was shot......I wish I could remember all the details of her explanation but what I remember most was the teacher teaching the class about the govenment subsidising the RR's.

notarps4me · **^ Top** #20 11.20.2008

There is a lot of reasons for their failure. A lot of corporate greed. Too many high paid salaries on the top end. The union backing people who don't want to work. Most of my family retired from GM and a lot of them would be off drunk most of the time. Their buddies would clock them in and out. Even my dad made more money when he retired. He drank so much that he was missing a lot of work at the end. I don't blame any one problem, but greed is what done them in. They kept wanting more and more and striking all the time that GM folded up In anderson IN. Other little factories came in doing the same job, but not paying 30 bucks and hour more like 10 bucks..........

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