Sell more cars...to whom...the robots?
Thanks for proving mine

I refuse to use self check out, even for a couple items....for the reasons I stated earlier. You say, "The stores are short on cashiers anyways" By design my friend...They will not open new registers because people look at the line and go to self check out and play right into their thinking. A large local chain by me has now installed 8 15' long conveyors and now they want you to scan and bag a whole basket of goods, meanwhile they will only open 1 or 2 registers out of 30. As soon as those new check outs were completed they laid off 12 cashiers (according to a friends wife who still works there). Gas stations....I lost my job in High School pumping gas to self serve pumps...Just last week..I pumped gas into a little old lady`s car because she couldn`t figure out the pump...not to mention the checking of fluids or air in the tires that stations used to provide...its not just about swiping a card my friend. I could go on like you said with everyday things that we have automated...but the next job lost could be your own.

PS I couldn`t tell you what Walmart does as I have never shopped there...And from your numerous posts referring to them I would venture to say that you do...Which speaks volumes on your views.

To the people who realized that manufacturing jobs can ALL be replaced, and did something about it, instead of assuming they would always have the same job.
Are all the jobs we lost were good ones and all the new ones are minimum-wage positions sweeping out abandoned factories? Actually, no. According to data compiled by Harvard economist Robert Z. Lawrence, the average blue-collar worker's wages and benefits, adjusted for inflation, have risen by 11 percent under NAFTA. Instead of driving pay scales down, it appears to have pulled them up. Manufacturing employment has declined, but not because we're producing less: Manufacturing output has not only expanded, but has expanded far faster than it did in the decade before NAFTA. The problem is that as productivity rises, we can make more stuff with fewer people. That's not a bad thing. In fact, it's essentially the definition of economic progress.
We're not the only country facing that phenomenon. China makes everything these days, right? But between 1995 and 2002, it lost 15 million manufacturing jobs.

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lol...uh. What? I have never heard of such an insane argument regarding self checkouts. First off, what is their 'thinking?'

Second, the self checkouts are slower, often require assistance in checking things out, they break down more frequently...etc.

The self-checkouts are designed primarily for people to have an alternative buying experience, mainly for those who have smaller purchases and would like to leave the store quicker. By passing up longer lines of full carts and such, a person who is only buying a DVD or a few small items can go through the self checkouts quicker. However, when you have larger purchases, the self-checkouts purpose goes in the opposite direction as it clogs up the shoppers. Shoppers want to get in AND out as quick as possible. The purpose is NOT to get people unemployed, sorry.

So, what you are basically saying that, its not acceptable for a grocery chain to streamline their operations? The price for that technology, equipment, training, maintenance, installation...etc...Im pretty sure exceeds the hourly cost of a minimum wage cashier.

Also, grocery chains that are doing this see a valid point in adding self-checkouts to their lines. Its not for the tinfoil hat conspiracy to lay offworkers. This is not something they go into a meeting and say "So Frank how was that ball game last night" "oh it was great, hey lets dump a bunch of money on those ...whatchamacallits...those self-checkouts" "Booyah, hookin you up dawg, heres a check"
Again, the grocery store is something that is so ridculously researched...I mean, companies actually will PAY the grocery chains to put their product at eye level, because that is where the consumer looks most. The whole shopping experience is a science, which is why when you enter a store, you usually end up going in a circle....often starting at the produce, working back towards a deli, meat, dairy, bakery...with going up and down the isles in between.
If you ever go into a grocery chain...a few times a year they rearrange the shelving and how products are placed. They actually have products pictured on a print out paper, showing exactly how the section of shelving is to be stocked...right down to "3 cans wide of Sams Beans here, 5 cans wide of peas here, 2 cans wide of store brand here"
And when you talk about the overall profits of a grocery chain which is super competitive and how they make lower profits compared to other types of stores...and when you combine all that together....its next to impossible to say that chains will simply go willy nilly and put a piece of technology there in order to fire employees.

Again it seems you are saying that companies shouldn't invest in technology. While you lost your job...how much quicker are gas stations able to pump fuel today? Imagine going to a Pilot or a Flying J, where they have 10or so fuel pumps...probably need 3 or 4 people if it was a full service operation....and which meas you would probably need at Least 20 or so people to make it full service round the clock. Do you think the gas stations would be able to make a profit off of that? Not even close, theyd go under in an instant.
The fuel prices are so close between chains that its to the penny or so between them. They make very little profit off of fuel...which is why they all hope (and advertise like #### at the fuel islands) that the customer will go into the store and buy a 2 dollar pop. Hence the 1 (or 2) pull up lanes at truck stops.
So in the end...while you lost your job...gas stations are able to pump more fuel and get more customers in and out along with running more pumps. They didn't accept the technology to lay you off...they accepted it to bring in more customers.

Well Im glad you helped out someone who was unable to take care of her own vehicle. Thanks for helping put her back on the road. While pumps can be tricky to operate, the automated ones have been around for at least 10-15 years. She must get kick-butt fuel mileage.

no no, please do.

I simply shop there. I also worked there so I know what working there is like. Lots of people bash Wal-Mart. But like I said, I KNOW what its like to work there...so Im more than happy to fire back to someone who just likes to go off on them for being anti-American or whatever. Wal Mart is the perfect example of one man who was a very hard worker and built a huge corporation up from one store. The things they do are because of the consumer who buys their products AND what the consumer wants.
And please, tell me how my shopping or defending wal mart speaks volumes on my views. Id thorougly enjoy reading it.

I shop there mainly because of their prices. Their food items are the same as you buy in your own local grocery store. Sometimes their prices are higher, sometimes not. It depends on what we buy. meat seem to be pricier there, and sometimes milk. Our weekly budget for groceries and various other household goods is 100 bucks. This past week, we spent 80.
All stores compete for business. One of the best ways to get customers through the door is price. Wal Mart is able to sometimes have lower prices than its competitors. We also subscribe to a weekly menu plan which, in our case, specifically uses prices for products at Wal Mart in its planning.

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[quote=Mooney;833074 According to data compiled by Harvard economist Robert Z. Lawrence, the average blue-collar worker's wages and benefits, adjusted for inflation, have risen by 11 percent under NAFTA. Instead of driving pay scales down, it appears to have pulled them up. Manufacturing employment has declined, but not because we're producing less: Manufacturing output has not only expanded, but has expanded far faster than it did in the decade before NAFTA.[/quote]

BWAH HA HA HA....Mr Lawrence`s books would be found in the comedy/fiction section at your local library.

NAFTA was the marriage of an economic giant to two smaller players, one of them vast and poorly populated but on par economically, the other populous and impoverished. The U.S. economy is 10 times the size of Mexico’s and 11 times Canada’s. And the United States has two-and-a-half times Mexico’s population and eight times Canada’s. The point was never to truly merge the three into a common society, but to solidify Mexico’s position as a source of cheap labor for U.S. corporations.

Lets look at some facts...
Fact-U.S. exports did increase, by 36 percent to Mexico and 33 percent to Canada. But imports increased more-up 83 percent from Mexico, 41 percent from Canada--increasing the U.S. trade deficit by $98 billion and growing...

Fact- Economists routinely use trade balances to reckon job creation and loss, indications are that the quadrupling of the U.S. deficit with Mexico and Canada works out to some 760,000 jobs lost to increased imports and to companies shifting production to Mexico to take advantage of lower wages.

Fact- Most so called U.S. exports wind up costing even more U.S. jobs, since more and more multinational companies are shipping components to Mexico, so they can be assembled by low-wage workers, then sent right back as finished products to the United States. This kind of "revolving door" export has more than doubled under NAFTA.

Fact-Employers have long used plant-closing threats to keep workers from forming unions and to force concessions, employers used this illegal maneuver in a whopping 50 percent of all union certification elections; 15 percent actually did shut down within two years of a union victory--triple the rate found in the late 1980s.
( Sources: US News and World Report, Institute for Policy Studies Washington DC)

If you think things have improved since the chart below... check out this link to U.S. Dept. of Commerce for the latest numbers...
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I've never met an economist who "reckon"-ed, ever.

What's illegal about closing their own plant? Who owns the plant?

Not the union.

Just wait and see how many close if "Card Check" somehow passes.

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It really isn`t about arguing the self check outs...more about my response to a post suggesting workers doing other peoples work, therefore eliminating jobs...but since you asked...
First off...Like I said...They have 30 check outs and only 2 are open..."their thinking" is...if the lines are long at the 2 open registers, people will use the self check out and they save on having to pay wages for cashiers.

...and they still save because they have 1 person running 6 self check outs.

...alternative buying expierence? What..are they providing snacks and entertainment?

...now your contradicting yourself...See second off above.

...like I said the local grocer just installed 15' conveyors for people with full baskets.

I beg to differ...


See Moon`s post about robots above....and minimum wage cashiers?..like I said I don`t shop at WalMart...Cashiers around these parts make $9-$10 per hour

My point about the elderly lady I spoke of wasn`t about her not being able to figure out how to pump her own gas...or about me losing my High School job to technology...it was about the fact that stations, to stay competetive, have streamlined to the point of not giving any service at all... including the elderly or the handicapped. Not all of us have the capability to check the oil or put air in a tire...there is a little more to it than just a "swipe of your card" as you said.

Let’s see: Low wages, no decent health benefits, overtime off the clock, discrimination, illegal aliens, verbal abuse - sounds just like Bangladesh doesn’t it...more thorougly enjoyable reading below.

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Who said it was illegal to close their own plant? ...not me
...but it is illegal to threaten it, to sway a vote for a union

if you guys dont mind, ill wade in here. having been on both sides of this, i cant see any reason why a non-union person would have any objection to this. if you dont want a union, dont sign the card, if you do, sign it. pretty simple.