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The Pet Stop The Animal Zone..Come on in and post about your pets and Animals in general. Share photos of your pets and wildlife. Discuss health and Vet care. Post interesting news articles on pets and wildlife. Truckers Pets MySpace

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Old 04.22.2009
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But most vets fear foodborne illnesses, say trend can harm the furry foodies

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Dr. Deborah S. Greco, an internal medicine specialist, advises dog breeders who fed a raw diet to rotate protein sources rather than relying exclusively on a single protein, such as chicken.
“What I usually recommend for people who are feeding homemade diets is to call a nutritionist and say ‘This is what I’m feeding; is it balanced?’”

But most veterinarians are wary about the trend toward raw food, or even meals that are cooked, but homemade. The idea of feeding pets raw meat, which has the potential to be contaminated with salmonella or E. coli bacteria, or a home-cooked meal that may not be properly balanced, gives them the shudders.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30311890/
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Old 04.22.2009
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If you want info on raw feeding your dog, or cat, there are many groups on Yahoo.
As for salmonella, it can often be found in Commercial dog food.
Most Vets receive very little training in nutrition, and what they do get is sponsored by the pet food companies.
Most holistic vets recommend raw diets.
would you feed a horse a pork chop? Why not?
Dogs and cats are carnivores, and feeding them grain based products is not a species appropriate diet.
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Old 04.22.2009
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I think it's a ridiculous trend. Just because dogs ate raw food in the wild 1,000 years ago doesn't mean they should now. I'm sure their systems have evolved just as ours have.
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Old 04.23.2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAPrincess View Post
I think it's a ridiculous trend. Just because dogs ate raw food in the wild 1,000 years ago doesn't mean they should now. I'm sure their systems have evolved just as ours have.
That isn't necessarily true. When our GSD; Kirah had osteosarcoma, the vet recommended a BARF diet (raw food) and suggested it would be good for all of our dogs. We still feed them raw deer/elk carcasses during hunting season and get then free from the local wild game processing businesses in the area.
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Old 04.25.2009
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BARF info..what vets and pet food makers don't want you to know...

The salmonella, e coli arguement does not fly.

And before I start let me state my credentials in this matter:
I am a former veterinary technician of 9 years working with everything from domestic pets to exotic animals (lions and tigers and bears..oh my! as well as monkeys and snakes and such).
I also bred dogs for many years, had up to 15 dogs at a time, did extensive research on the BARF diet and the history of commercial pet foods vs. animal health statistics, and fed my dogs a BARF diet.

(For those who are wondering why we'd feed our animals barf....BARF stands for Biologically Appropriate Raw Foods, or in the alternative, Bones And Raw Foods).

Humans have a very lengthy digestive system. Because of the length of the human digestive system and the time required for food to pass through it, there is ample time for bacteria to incubate and reproduce and become a health problem.
Dogs (and cats...and most other animals) have a much much shorter digestive system. As there is less distance for the food to travel, it passes through much more quickly and bacteria does not have time to incubate and reproduce enough to be a problem for the animal.
Salmonella and e coli, however, pass through the animal's system and are shed in the feces. Therefore one must be aware of this and use care in handling the feces of BARF fed animals. Regular hygenic practices are sufficient but must be utilized.

Most commercial pet foods are not balanced as to the calcium : phophorous ratio. This is a ratio that must be almost precisely perfect for any living creature to properly utilize the bioavailable calcium. It is because of the skew in this balance in commercial pet foods that we have seen an upswing in osteopathic disorders, as well as other health problems such as blockages in the urinary tract due to crystals, with the advent of modern commercial pet foods.
We have also seen a dramatic increase in allergy and immune related disorders with the introduction of commercial pet foods due to the use of man made checmicals in these foods that the biological systems of our domestic pets had not previously had to cope with and are ill equipped to deal with.

Bones ARE safe to feed your pet in a BARF diet and are actually encouraged but MUST BE FED RAW!! Raw bones do not splinter....COOKED BONES DO! Raw bones are easily chewed by animals (barring any chronic dental problems) and have the benefit of helping keep the teeth clean, the gums toned and the breath fresh.

For those who may think that this is an expensive diet to feed-
Find out if you have a meat processing plant near you. My dogs ate for close to free for over 5 years. I provided the meat processor with a bin, he'd fill it with what is known in the industry as "off-cuts" (all the unused parts..including bones..that would otherwise be discarded) and I'd pick it up once a week, exchanging the full bin with an empty one. My only cost was the vegetables and dairy products I fed as well as the few supplements I added.

My dogs were-
Healthy
Odor free
Had no allergy problems
Had shiny, full coats with much less shedding
Had clean teeth and no "dog breath"
And because the food is highly bioavailable and more of what goes in is utilized....I did not have to feed as much, less came out the other end AND what did come out had a much less offensive odor AND broke down much more quickly....so no huge stinky piles of mushy "bowser bombs".

If anyone would like more information on feeding thier pet a BARF diet, you can PM me or we can open it up for discussion here.

RT
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Old 04.25.2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukesdad View Post
Dogs and cats are carnivores, and feeding them grain based products is not a species appropriate diet.
Actually they are omnivores, although thier diet is largely meat based.

Canine and feline species in the wild (wolves, coyotes and the big cats) get thier vegetables largely by eating the stomach, and it's contents, of thier prey...most of which are herbivores. The vegetable requirement is not a high one for dogs and cats but they do require at least a small amount.

If you look at the ingredient list for most commercial pet foods, you are right, one of the first ingredients is some kind of grain. I always ask people "When was the last time you saw a dog or cat merrily grazing in the pasture??"

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Old 04.27.2009
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Originally Posted by GAPrincess View Post
I think it's a ridiculous trend. Just because dogs ate raw food in the wild 1,000 years ago doesn't mean they should now. I'm sure their systems have evolved just as ours have.
Commercial dog food has only existed for roughly the past 60 years. Before that, domestic dogs ate scraps (which, if you consider the time frame consisted mostly of leftovers from homecooked, homegrown meals- not the processed high-salt, high-fat, high-sugar items in most people's modern diets). Scraps which were often supplemented with organ meats, bones and other byproducts from hunting or livestock raising....since both activities were much more prevalent in the average household a century ago.

There's no way the dog's digestive tract has "evolved" to accomodate a GRAIN based, processed kibble diet in 60 years. Nothing in nature evolves that quickly.

Considering that most widely available commercial dog foods are practically nothing but corn, wheat and/or soy....you're suggesting that the dog has evolved from being primarily carnivorous to being primarily herbivorous in less than a century? 1000 years wouldn't be enough to change a single species so drastically.

The dog is only a few chromosomes away from being genetically identical to the wolf....raw diets aren't as "ridiculous" as you may think. With proper research & planning a raw diet is far superior to any commercially made dry kibble on the market.

For people who don't have the time or resources (or ability- like truck drivers with on-board pets) to feed raw, there are commercially prepared "grain free" kibbles that contain nothing artificial & only human-quality ingredients....definitely the "next best thing" and WORLDS better than feeding the cheap bag of corn byproducts most people buy at the super wal-mart.

I can't even say how many skin, odor, shedding, coat & digestive problems I've seen in dogs practically DISAPPEAR with a simple switch to a high-quality kibble or to a raw diet.
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Old 04.27.2009
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From the originally posted article: "But most veterinarians are wary about the trend toward raw food, or even meals that are cooked, but homemade. The idea of feeding pets raw meat, which has the potential to be contaminated with salmonella or E. coli bacteria, or a home-cooked meal that may not be properly balanced, gives them the shudders."

"Shudders"? I look at the ingredient list on any bag of dog food in the grocery store- THAT makes ME shudder. Somebody else already covered the salmonella argument. Never mind the fact that salmonella has been found in dry kibble- and even THEN it is primarily regarded as a risk to the human who handles the kibble. Anybody remember the pet food recall not too long ago that was making pets sick- even killed some? That affected almost every brand of dog food in the country; save for some small, high-quality manufacturers such as Innova? Seems to me that poor quality ingredients of questionable origin would be a bigger concern.....

What gets me is that the vets who "discourage" a raw diet are the same ones who'd eagerly give their thumbs-up to any grain-heavy commercial kibble especially before the recall scare. Vets who supplement their income by selling the same mediocre-quality glorified cattle feed; only with a "Scientifically Formulated" label on the bag. Veterinarians are not necessarily canine nutrition specialists....no more than a human "general practitioner" MD would also be a qualified nutrition specialist MD.

The only legitimate concern IMO regarding the raw-feeding trend is the tendency of many people to "adopt" something that sounds good without FULLY understanding what they're doing. It takes thorough research to really understand how to feed a BALANCED raw/homecooked diet.

People who read a few Web pages, immediately start feeding their dog bones & hamburger meat, and six months later have a severely mineral-deficient malnourished animal...THAT'S where you'll see the most "harm" in the raw-diet trend.

And of course it's those people who'll end up at the vet seeking help most often (not the people doing it the RIGHT way who have HEALTHY dogs) and it will further fuel the negative opinions of the "anti-raw" vets. Vets who, at the same time, will jump at the chance to sell another bag of their "scientifically formulated" overpriced corn-and-preservative food pellets. JMO.
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