393.60(e) Violation - What..

Discussion in 'Trucking Industry Regulations' started by JJKid, Jun 23, 2015.

  1. Pedigreed Bulldog

    Pedigreed Bulldog Road Train Member

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    Just like the seemingly worthless coins you save up in a jar combine to be worth some real money, the points also add up. Intervention level depends entirely upon your position within the peer group. If a few of them manage to avoid being inspected at all, most of them run lanes where they are seldom inspected, and then there's the guy who passes 3 different sets of scales twice a day. Of course he stands a greater chance of being inspected than the other peers who seldom if ever interact with inspectors. It doesn't take much...if everybody else has NO points due to lack of inspections, and you get a BS violation, guess what...you are now in the 100th percentile in your peer group...even if that BS was only a 1 pointer, because everybody else is at 0, you are the worst of the bunch. Many carriers are in that scenario, where their percentage score goes UP even if they didn't receive any violations, because other carriers in their peer group had more points fall off that month than they did. ANY points count against you, because like the coins in the jar, they add up.
     
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  3. jammer910Z

    jammer910Z Road Train Member

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    True.. but thanks to the weighted scale some genius thought to apply to the point system, a 2pt violation with a 3 weight is a 6pt hit in year one.

    Now, I can definitely agree that a sheet of paper taped inside a windshield can be an obstruction , so that's not a beef for me. But, a GPS, or in my case , a dash cam is a slightly different story (IMO).

    A dash cam generally needs to have a clear line of sight to record properly and if hidden out of the wiper path it is rendered basically ineffective during the times it is most likely to be needed... inclement weather.

    If it's raining or snowing , the picture is of a bunch of water bubbles or a giant swath of white. When some Yahoo fishtail into your lane and you tag them on the bumper, you have no recourse with the trooper because we all know the other guy is gonna say..."HE HIT ME"

    Somehow common sense should prevail.
     
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  4. brian991219

    brian991219 Road Train Member

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    Scalemaster,
    Thank you for participating in our forums, it is good to have the perspective from the other side presented as well. The whole CSA thing is a sore point for us small fleet owners, we are graded by our customers based on our score, some will stop using us if it is perceived to be too risky, yet the whole system is flawed, and yes a series of small violations do add up to big trouble with the age weighting system applied to them. Because as smaller carriers we get inspected less often than larger carriers each inspection carries more weight toward our total score, even though we are "graded" in peer groups, it is still not an apples to apples comparison. This has noting to do with your job as roadside enforcement, it is a Washington problem, but the little violations that used to be no big deal do add up faster today, plus it targets us for more roadside enforcement, possibly adding more violations to our score that would have been otherwise missed. A special case in point is warnings, I would rather have a citation issued so I can contest it in court, then do a DataQ challenge to have the points removed from my CSA score than have a warning issued in connection to an inspection report, as there is no way to have those points removed if they were issued erroneously. Case in point, although there are no CSA points involved in size and weight issues, roadside officers do make errors, I have two citations pending in New York for violating length limits with my combination, but I have a letter of determination of compliance from the FHWA stating I am in compliance, but the officer in question continues to cite me, even after receiving a copy of the letter from FHWA, he says they are misinterpreting their own rules. Other CVE officers in his own Troop agrre he is incorrect, but he still persists. Crazy, right?

    As for the OP and his obstructed view, I too agree that the registration taped inside the window would create an obstructed view, but what about states like my home state of Pennsylvania that give us instructions with our temporary credentials that require them to be taped to the windshield if a rear window is not available? Would you still issue the citation if the driver could show you on the document from the state agency that issued it the instructions to affix it to the windshield in the lower right hand corner? This is a darned if you do darned if you don't situation?
     
  5. S M D

    S M D Road Train Member

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    I almost got a citation but I argued and argued and refused to take it so after discussing with 3 different officers I got a warning for my phone mount being on the windshield I have crossed the truckee scale at least 1000 times if not more and that freaking phone mount has been there for years. And they want to Harrass me for it now?

    Your violation is ridiculous because how many trucks do you see rolling down the interstate that have a white paper stuck to the corner of the windshield especially on i-80 you can't just let it go stick it to em.
     
    joshuapowell61 and KANSAS TRANSIT Thank this.
  6. Chinatown

    Chinatown Road Train Member

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    It doesn't matter if you have any violations or not; DOT will write up something to get brownie points with their supervisor. This has nothing to do with safety; it's all about money and power over you. They've been hammering drivers this past winter for having ice on the trailer lights; it seems those LED lights don't get warm enough to melt ice, so "Hey, looky here, found something elso to hammer truck drivers for; I'll be a hero at the local beer joint when I tell them how I'm saving the world."
    I'm still PO'd about a ticket I received in a rest area in Tennessee. DOT said a trailer tail light was not working. I asked, which one because I didn't see any not working. He pointed at one that was obviously working and said, that one is out. I said , I don't understand, it's on. He said, well, I'm saying it isn't on and you're getting a ticket and can't leave until it's fixed. He wrote the ticket and walked away and I got in the truck and left. What a jerk.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2015
  7. KANSAS TRANSIT

    KANSAS TRANSIT Road Train Member

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    THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Thanks PD for putting into words the thoughts and fears of all of us O/O's and small fleet owners.

    Back to the windshield regs, so how does the DOT justify the PrePass box? IT HAS to be affixed to the windshield, and on both my newer Cascadias, AND my old small cab Pete, that box IS within the sweep of the wipers, and there is NO getting around it.
     
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  8. jammer910Z

    jammer910Z Road Train Member

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    That's when you take a picture of it burning ,with your phone so it has a time and date stamp, and take a pic of the officer or his unit on the scene at the same time... then, show up in court.

    It's a lot of trouble. But it's the only weapon you have in your arsenal when they get that chip on their shoulder. We all know that arguing with them only makes it worse and to NOT do that.

    Fight fire with fire.
     
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  9. JJKid

    JJKid Medium Load Member

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    Yeah I just dont understand. With that being said, if we cant have nothing on the windshield so what about my iPass and PrePass? Quite confused. I showed of asked him that question, it just didn't dawn to me since I was really irritated, confused and in awe that I would get such a violation. In the last hour, I've seen 10 trucks with a temp posted on their windshield. Sounds like total ######## to me. I am now running with no plate and no temp on my windshield, and knowing illinois - I will get pulled over randomly roadside and they will accuse me of hiding my plate or give me #### over no temp on my windshield. I will have my DOT inspection from WISCONSIN ready and I will guarantee you... their exact words will be "Well, this is illinois, not Wisconsin." I will then be hit with a failure to have plate or registration violation in a DOT inspection and a ticket. Mark my words.


    So the only solution is - Call every DOT office in the state's I run and see if it's acceptable to have a permit on the windshield or not then follow those rules. What a pain in the ####ing ###. Take off permit MI, put on permit IL, take off permit WI, put on permit in IA. Lol.
     
    truckon and KANSAS TRANSIT Thank this.
  10. Meltom

    Meltom Road Train Member

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    I thought of this post yesterday when the guy going through the intersection (in WI) had 3 pieces of 8 x 11 paper taped to the passenger side windshield.
     
    truckon Thanks this.
  11. JJKid

    JJKid Medium Load Member

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    Yeah. After I was done, I went to the office and went directly to Safety. I told him I got stopped and he's like - GREAT! Inspection form please. He took a look at it and said "No comment, thank you for your hard work and keeping up with your truck/paperwork. It happens and its unfortunate. We'll have to adapt to WI now, do not have that posted on your windshield. I'll get back to you on the other states". He gave me a $250 bonus and counted it as a clean no violation inspection pass even though it wasn't. He is looking into this right now and is going to send a mass text blast for all Owner Operators who have permits on their windshield to avoid this type of petty violation. I run containers, we're already a DOT magnet...last thing I need is to have a bear see me with a container and no plate/permit.
     
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