Has anyone had a Hazmat Violation ?

Discussion in 'Trucker Legal Advice' started by 82ndCowboy, Jan 29, 2012.

  1. 82ndCowboy

    82ndCowboy Light Load Member

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    Thanks for the info and help CC,
    I was aware that I can not haul anything over 119 gallons. I always air on the safe side and haul ZERO gallons. My error came from thinking that because the tank was empty I was not carrying any hazardous material.

    Isn't that a reasonable assumption from someone that was never trained in HM?
     
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  3. 82ndCowboy

    82ndCowboy Light Load Member

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    And I hope your right about not hurting me. But the court appearance has me a little nervous.
    Hence my original post,
    Are they going to hit me with more fines? Suspend my license? Revoke my authority?
    The DOT officer said this is a federal offense and I could be taken to jail for this. He was nice enough not to do that to me. But now I still have to go to court.
     
  4. revelation1911

    revelation1911 Heavy Load Member

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    The first and second one are redundant I would see about having one removed to start with. Second did they test what they claimed was residue?
    How do you know it was fuel? More than likely you admitted guilt?
    I remember from when I was fighting a OOS in ohio they jammed this guy up for the same thing, it wound up they got the money but he did get part of the OSS's removed. This is online OPUC has a online docket file.
    To start with I wouldn't knowingly haul the load and I have hazmat on cdl.
    If I wound up with it I would have said it was a water tank unless it's clearly a fuel tank? I would never admitt it to the police anyway.
    I would have covered it with a tarp as a last resort and it wouldn't have been visible.
    I wouldn't worry about the court appearance thats what the police hope for you being afraid of them I say piss on them.
    Ask for a jury trial by a jury of your peers if possible. Most of this stuff is handled through what is called "administrative law" this is a way to screw you without giving you a lot of your rights you would be entitled to otherwise.
     
  5. GasHauler

    GasHauler Master FMCSA Interpreter

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    There's no difference between O/O and company drivers when it comes to loading hazmat. Both types of drivers are responsible for what they load and the drivers get fined on some parts just like the O/O. Telling the court you didn't know because it was not required to know is the wrong move. You are required to know what you're putting on the truck. If you knew you were loading TNT and it didn't have placards would you load it? You knew it was a hazmat container and you took the easy way and were wrong.

    I know of one driver that was ticketed and wanted by the FBI after he fled a hazmat spill he caused. It was some years ago but the driver got stuck in the snow up in the Utah mountains so he let 1000 gallons of diesel fuel go onto the ground in a national forest so he could get unstuck. Yes, he was that stupid. The last we know about him there were over a $1,000,000 in fines and no one ever saw that guy again.

    At the least I would think you would be held accountable and have points taken away. The courts may wave the fines because they are easier on private parties and not deep pocket companies. It would be wise to get a lawyer and one that knows the state and federal hazmat laws. I'm sure you's be better of with representation than going it alone. Sorry for the news. But you could be facing some serious problems here and I believe you need some experts in the court room. Lets hope I'm wrong.
     
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  6. dancnoone

    dancnoone "Village Idiot"

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    Too many HM loads slip past drivers that are unaware of the regs.

    It takes time to review what exactly applies to you, with some loads. Some loads may not be considered HM unless certain criteria are met. Then they quickly become HM. Old batteries..... may or may not be. The driver has to determine this.

    And I've pissed many a customer and dispatcher off regarding loads I confirmed to be HM. When they told me it wasn't.
     
  7. rookietrucker

    rookietrucker Trucker Forum STAFF Staff Member

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    82ndCowboy,

    First and foremost, Any gripes with the staff at TTR, should be addressed in PM, not out here in public display. Anything can be resolved this way, it may not be the answer you want to hear but it will get addressed.

    Second, I was the one that moved this thread. Your questions regarding your violations is not specific to O/O's but to all drivers in general. Like gashauler stated, The driver is ultimately responsible for what is loaded on their trailer. Does not matter if your O/O or company driver or what trailer your pulling. You choose to accept the load in the stated matter. My choice was either regulations or legal advice. I choose legal advice, because your questions seemed to be asking for legal advice.

    I'm not attacking you but felt offended. When I was trying to help you and PM'd another member to chime in. When I move threads, most of the time it gets better results, than where originally posted.

    Keep it safe out there.......


    RT
     
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  8. CondoCruiser

    CondoCruiser The Legend

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    What's reasonable and what they have on paper are two different things.

    When a hazmat item that is not easily identifiable and comes from a shipper that normally doesn't deal in hazmat, an argument can be made of liability. First the shipper goofed big time. Being a tank, they would probably say you should of checked. But like you said, not trained in HM regulations, you wouldn't know the particular regulations. On the other hand, the shipper should of known better.

    You might consult with an attorney. We're just a bunch of truck drivers. You might get your end cleared, but the shipper definately won't.

    There's a whole bunch of HM violations you could of received, but you didn't. It's like someone busted doing 15 over. It's up to the officer to charge you with reckless driving or not. He chose the lessor charges because of the circumstances. But he had to do what he thought was right to not let the tank proceed further.

    It's totally up to you. From your previous post, it sounds like the fines have already been determined and the shipper agreed to pay them. You can either fight it or just accept the points on your CSA2010. It's not a moving violation, nothing will go on your MVR.

    What I could find and the violations you listed are a little vague, but I found....
    No hazmat endorsement, 3 points
    No placards, 1 point
    Improper shipping papers, 1 point

    So first year is times 3 which is 15 points on your scorecard. Nobody is going to consider you a bad driver until you get in the 40's. Intervention won't happen until you get up near 75 or above.

    Here's the score system...

    http://www.landlinemag.com/todays_news/Daily/2009/Dec09/121409/SMSMethodology.pdf

    Yours is on page 45 and 67.

    That's how everything should play out. The leo has the option of adding additional charges. But I believe everything has already been done and the dust settled.

    If you go to court, most likely you can at least get the fine knocked down possibly in half. But that won't benefit you. Your only hope is dismissal and that's something only a lawyer can tell you.

    If the tickets are in your name, make sure you get proof they were paid and not just the shippers word.
     
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  9. 82ndCowboy

    82ndCowboy Light Load Member

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    Yes Gashauler I know I am not allowed to haul flammable liquids. But nothing I ever read or was told ever informed me that an empty tank is hauling HM. IT"S EMPTY. So as far as any reasonable person would think, you are not hauling anything but a tank.
    If your wallet is empty, do you have any money in it? NO. If someone hands you an empty plate and says here, enjoy this great meal, Do you get to eat? NO. If your shipper says deliver this truckload of tv's to the receiver and when you get there and the trailer is empty, are you getting paid for the load? No.
    That is the point. If you are not informed that something out of the ordinary is the norm then you should not be expected to know it.
     
  10. rookietrucker

    rookietrucker Trucker Forum STAFF Staff Member

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    I do hope you post your final outcome of this case. A shared learning experience helps other uninformed drivers.
     
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  11. 82ndCowboy

    82ndCowboy Light Load Member

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    Osteen, FL
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    My apologies, I was not trying to offend you. I posted in the O/O section because that is the target audience I was querying. I was not seeking advice really, I was seeking those that have experienced this issue first hand to find out what may happen when I go to court.
    As I stated in my OP, I was already considering a lawyer but I wanted to know if maybe it would be wasting money.

    I did however retain a lawyer at the Road Law that was recommended. They are handling it from here on out.
     
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