Has anyone had a Hazmat Violation ?

82ndCowboy · Feb 2, 2012

CondoCruiser said: ↑

What's reasonable and what they have on paper are two different things.

When a hazmat item that is not easily identifiable and comes from a shipper that normally doesn't deal in hazmat, an argument can be made of liability. First the shipper goofed big time. Being a tank, they would probably say you should of checked. But like you said, not trained in HM regulations, you wouldn't know the particular regulations. On the other hand, the shipper should of known better.

You might consult with an attorney. We're just a bunch of truck drivers. You might get your end cleared, but the shipper definately won't.

There's a whole bunch of HM violations you could of received, but you didn't. It's like someone busted doing 15 over. It's up to the officer to charge you with reckless driving or not. He chose the lessor charges because of the circumstances. But he had to do what he thought was right to not let the tank proceed further.

It's totally up to you. From your previous post, it sounds like the fines have already been determined and the shipper agreed to pay them. You can either fight it or just accept the points on your CSA2010. It's not a moving violation, nothing will go on your MVR.

What I could find and the violations you listed are a little vague, but I found....
No hazmat endorsement, 3 points
No placards, 1 point
Improper shipping papers, 1 point

So first year is times 3 which is 15 points on your scorecard. Nobody is going to consider you a bad driver until you get in the 40's. Intervention won't happen until you get up near 75 or above.

Here's the score system...

http://www.landlinemag.com/todays_news/Daily/2009/Dec09/121409/SMSMethodology.pdf

Yours is on page 45 and 67.

That's how everything should play out. The leo has the option of adding additional charges. But I believe everything has already been done and the dust settled.

If you go to court, most likely you can at least get the fine knocked down possibly in half. But that won't benefit you. Your only hope is dismissal and that's something only a lawyer can tell you.

If the tickets are in your name, make sure you get proof they were paid and not just the shippers word.
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The transporting HM without an endorsement is on my drivers license. That does go on my personal driving record. It is a criminal offense. And it falls under the serious violation category. Which means if I get another serious violation within 3 years my CDL gets suspended for 60 days.
That in itself was enough to make me decide to get a lawyer. The fines I don't care, the shipper is more than willing to pay any and all costs. They have already giving me the money for the fine up front.

skateboardman · Feb 2, 2012

it is the shippers responsibility to properly label the haz-mat, and it must clearly marked on the bill of lading.

the shipper is on the hook for this. thats why they are so cooperative.

wis bang · Feb 3, 2012

skateboardman said: ↑

it is the shippers responsibility to properly label the haz-mat, and it must clearly marked on the bill of lading.

the shipper is on the hook for this. thats why they are so cooperative.
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Yeah but with haz mat once the driver leaves the shipper the enforcement falls on him and his carrier. It cost my last employer $6K for the HM violation and then another $17K for the false logs & it cost me 97 weeks of unemployment....

skateboardman · Feb 3, 2012

false logs, EH

shredfit1 · Feb 5, 2012

82ndCowboy said: ↑

The shippers is paying the 1,100.00 fine.
500. - no placards
500. - no shipping papers
100. - drivers disqualified no HM endorsement

I made sure the tank was empty because I know I can not haul Hazardous material.
If the shipper had placards on the tank, I would never have allowed it to be put on my trailer.
I was not aware and have not read anywhere where anything states a tank has to be cleaned and purged in order to not require placards.
I can't even find anything in the CDL book or the safety regulations that would inform someone that is not certified in HM that an empty portable tank is to be treated as HM. And nothing I've ever read states that a portable container must be placarded regardless of the quantity of material in it.

I've even tried reading CFR 49 (total MF btw) and looked at the definition of hazardous material and no where in the definition does it state an empty container with residue is hazardous material.

I'm in a precarious position with all this because I do not want to throw the shipper under the bus, because with out them I am out of business.
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Was it fuel that was in this tank? If, so what kind? It sounds like this may have been used to fill construction/farm equipment(dyed fuel) and it may help your case in court, because if it was an offroad bulk refueler, typically no formal BOL's are used in the bulk offroad offload... At least they aren't in my neck of the woods. Also, there are a ton of exemptions for farm related stuff... worth a look.

Fuel tanks are almost Never washed out and cleaned and you would need the previous BOL for transport.

There is a separate HazMat book (as thick as the green book) with all the reg's about HazMat... In other words, it will not be in the Big Green book.

BTW: I'm a HazMat fuel hauler

82ndCowboy · Feb 5, 2012

shredfit1 said: ↑

Was it fuel that was in this tank? If, so what kind? It sounds like this may have been used to fill construction/farm equipment(dyed fuel) and it may help your case in court, because if it was an offroad bulk refueler, typically no formal BOL's are used in the bulk offroad offload... At least they aren't in my neck of the woods. Also, there are a ton of exemptions for farm related stuff... worth a look.

Fuel tanks are almost Never washed out and cleaned and you would need the previous BOL for transport.

There is a separate HazMat book (as thick as the green book) with all the reg's about HazMat... In other words, it will not be in the Big Green book.
Click to expand...

Yes it was off road diesel. But there was no useable quantity in it. There was less than a pint of fluid in the very bottom. And refueling farm equipment is exactly what it was used for.
And Yes, I did pick up one of those HM Handbooks, so this kind of #### doesn't happen to me again.

82ndCowboy · Feb 5, 2012

wis bang said: ↑

Yeah but with haz mat once the driver leaves the shipper the enforcement falls on him and his carrier. It cost my last employer $6K for the HM violation and then another $17K for the false logs & it cost me 97 weeks of unemployment....

Click to expand...

Wisbang,
Did you have to go to court over that?

shredfit1 · Feb 5, 2012

82ndCowboy said: ↑

Yes it was off road diesel. But there was no useable quantity in it. There was less than a pint of fluid in the very bottom. And refueling farm equipment is exactly what it was used for.
And Yes, I did pick up one of those HM Handbooks, so this kind of #### doesn't happen to me again.
Click to expand...

Bingo, you have yourself a case to to get this all dismissed... Get an attorney... tell him/her the whole situation. Actually the DOT messed up with this, as he should have know there ARE farm exemptions... and there would not have been a previous BOL... in the bulk portable tank, at least there isn't in Iowa and Minnesota when they transfer from a farm bulk to a portable offroad tank.

I think you have a real shot at this... keep us in the loop

wis bang · Feb 9, 2012

82ndCowboy said: ↑

Wisbang,
Did you have to go to court over that?
Click to expand...

No They presented the findings on the last day finding us to be Conditional, originally asked for more $$$ and had a few other items we were able to address in our proposed corrective action.

They will negotiate some & worked out a final amount with a payment schedule. If you fail to meet the schedule they revert back to the full fine amount.

They waited 4 months while I worked on the problem loggers and then dropped the hammer on me the day after I made my final college tuition payment for my youngest.

Since I needed the $$$$ i agreed to work for two more weeks w/ my replacement. I walked back to my desk and shortly later received a call from the DOT scheduling our re-audit...I laughed for about 5 min after that call!

LSAgentOZR · Feb 9, 2012

Maybe I'm crazy...but isn't three years a little harsh?

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