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  1. #1
    Bobtail Member
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    Non CDL truck driver needs log?

    This is my first post and visit to your site.. IT IS Great! (Used to be OTR for about 2 years.)

    I work for a Service company that rents a bucket truck for 'interstate' visits to sites. The truck is non-CDL <26k, >10k. I am not a driver but a technician.

    Do I need to keep a log book for trips over 150 miles? I guess I am having trouble with the concept because, although it's a commercial vehicle, my company is not a Motor Carrier. Do they need to keep records and get some DOT number? The rental already has a DOT number from the leasing company.


  2. #2
    Bobtail Member
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    clarification...

    I do drive the truck from site to site but my classification is a technician.. (Upon reading my post, that was unclear.)

  3. #3
    Medium Load Member Scalemaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gear Check View Post
    I work for a Service company that rents a bucket truck for 'interstate' visits to sites. The truck is non-CDL <26k, >10k. I am not a driver but a technician.

    Do I need to keep a log book for trips over 150 miles? I guess I am having trouble with the concept because, although it's a commercial vehicle, my company is not a Motor Carrier. Do they need to keep records and get some DOT number? The rental already has a DOT number from the leasing company.
    If you drive a company vehicle with a GVWR over 10,000# yet under 26,000# you fall under all the FMCSR regs (log book, med card, etc.) except CDL.

    HOS local exemption is 100 miles, not 150.

    If your company operates across state lines then they need a USDOT number and must display their name and USDOT number on any vehicle they operate. The USDOT number of the company you lease vehicles from is irrelevant.

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  5. #4
    Road Train Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gear Check View Post
    This is my first post and visit to your site.. IT IS Great! (Used to be OTR for about 2 years.)

    I work for a Service company that rents a bucket truck for 'interstate' visits to sites. The truck is non-CDL <26k, >10k. I am not a driver but a technician.

    Do I need to keep a log book for trips over 150 miles? I guess I am having trouble with the concept because, although it's a commercial vehicle, my company is not a Motor Carrier. Do they need to keep records and get some DOT number? The rental already has a DOT number from the leasing company.
    If it is a 30 day or less rental, you need the copy of the rental agreement in possession that must include carrier name and USDOT on the rental agreement. If it will be over a 30 day rental, you carrier name and USDOT number shall be displayed.

    390.21

    (e) Rented CMVs. A motor carrier operating a self-propelled CMV under a rental agreement having a term not in excess of 30 calendar days meets the requirements of this section if: (1) The CMV is marked in accordance with the provisions of paragraphs (b) through (d) of this section; or (2) The CMV is marked as set forth in paragraph (e)(2)(i) through (iv) of this section:
    Code of Federal Regulations338


    (i) The legal name or a single trade name of the lessor is displayed in accordance with paragraphs (c) and (d) of this section.(ii) The lessor's identification number preceded by the letters “USDOT” is displayed in accordance with paragraphs (c) and (d) of this section; and(iii) The rental agreement entered into by the lessor and the renting motor carrier conspicuously contains the following informationA) The name and complete physical address of the principal place of business of the renting motor carrier;(B) The identification number issued the renting motor carrier by the FMCSA, preceded by the letters “USDOT,” if the motor carrier has been issued such a number. In lieu of the identification number required in this paragraph, the following may be shown in the rental agreement: (1) Information which indicates whether the motor carrier is engaged in “interstate” or “intrastate” commerce; and (2) Information which indicates whether the renting motor carrier is transporting hazardous materials in the rented CMV; (C) The sentence: “This lessor cooperates with all Federal, State, and local law enforcement officials nationwide to provide the identity of customers who operate this rental CMV”; and(iv) The rental agreement entered into by the lessor and the renting motor carrier is carried on the rental CMV during the full term of the rental agreement. See the leasing regulations at 49 CFR 376 for information that should be included in all leasing documents.

  6. #5
    Medium Load Member wis bang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scalemaster View Post
    If you drive a company vehicle with a GVWR over 10,000# yet under 26,000# you fall under all the FMCSR regs (log book, med card, etc.) except CDL.

    HOS local exemption is 100 miles, not 150.

    If your company operates across state lines then they need a USDOT number and must display their name and USDOT number on any vehicle they operate. The USDOT number of the company you lease vehicles from is irrelevant.
    Wouldn't he fall under the new 150 mile [non CDL] exemption?

  7. #6
    The Legend CondoCruiser's Avatar
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    Not sure how you might interpret this. But there is an exception for utility vehicles.

    Hours of service of drivers

    § 395.1 Scope of rules in this part. (a) General. (1) The rules in this part apply to all motor carriers and drivers, except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (r) of this section. (2) The exceptions from Federal requirements contained in paragraphs (l) and (m) of this section do not preempt State laws and regulations governing the safe operation of commercial motor vehicles.
    395.1(n) Utility service vehicles. The provisions of this part shall not apply to a driver of a utility service vehicle as defined in § 395.2
    395.2 Definitions... Utility service vehicle means any commercial motor vehicle: (1) Used in the furtherance of repairing, maintaining, or operating any structures or any other physical facilities necessary for the delivery of public utility services, including the furnishing of electric, gas, water, sanitary sewer, telephone, and television cable or community antenna service;(2) While engaged in any activity necessarily related to the ultimate delivery of such public utility services to consumers, including travel or movement to, from, upon, or between activity sites (including occasional travel or movement outside the service area necessitated by any utility emergency as determined by the utility provider); and(3) Except for any occasional emergency use, operated primarily within the service area of a utility's subscribers or consumers, without regard to whether the vehicle is owned, leased, or rented by the utility.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselbear View Post
    If it is a 30 day or less rental, you need the copy of the rental agreement in possession that must include carrier name and USDOT on the rental agreement. If it will be over a 30 day rental, you carrier name and USDOT number shall be displayed.

    390.21

    (e) Rented CMVs. A motor carrier operating a self-propelled CMV under a rental agreement having a term not in excess of 30 calendar days meets the requirements of this section if: (1) The CMV is marked in accordance with the provisions of paragraphs (b) through (d) of this section; or (2) The CMV is marked as set forth in paragraph (e)(2)(i) through (iv) of this section:
    Code of Federal Regulations338


    (i) The legal name or a single trade name of the lessor is displayed in accordance with paragraphs (c) and (d) of this section.(ii) The lessor's identification number preceded by the letters “USDOT” is displayed in accordance with paragraphs (c) and (d) of this section; and(iii) The rental agreement entered into by the lessor and the renting motor carrier conspicuously contains the following informationA) The name and complete physical address of the principal place of business of the renting motor carrier;(B) The identification number issued the renting motor carrier by the FMCSA, preceded by the letters “USDOT,” if the motor carrier has been issued such a number. In lieu of the identification number required in this paragraph, the following may be shown in the rental agreement: (1) Information which indicates whether the motor carrier is engaged in “interstate” or “intrastate” commerce; and (2) Information which indicates whether the renting motor carrier is transporting hazardous materials in the rented CMV; (C) The sentence: “This lessor cooperates with all Federal, State, and local law enforcement officials nationwide to provide the identity of customers who operate this rental CMV”; and(iv) The rental agreement entered into by the lessor and the renting motor carrier is carried on the rental CMV during the full term of the rental agreement. See the leasing regulations at 49 CFR 376 for information that should be included in all leasing documents.
    The thing is his employer is not a motor carrier . The rental company should have knowledge of how to comply with regulations .
    Yes , his employer does need to keep a driver file and maintain records . They probably aren't close to complying . Did they inquire with previous employers ? Was there a pre-hire drug test ? Is the driver in a pool for random drug tests ? The employer needs to go to the FMCSA website and learn what is required .

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickG View Post
    The thing is his employer is not a motor carrier . The rental company should have knowledge of how to comply with regulations .
    Yes , his employer does need to keep a driver file and maintain records . They probably aren't close to complying . Did they inquire with previous employers ? Was there a pre-hire drug test ? Is the driver in a pool for random drug tests ? The employer needs to go to the FMCSA website and learn what is required .
    I bet they are a motor carrier, but are not for hire and will not need a MC number. If it's over 10,000 lbs and used for commerce, they need a USDOT number. 10,001 lbs and used in commerce gets them into the regulations. For instance, a company that does not have any trucks, but today goes to Penske and rents a 26,000 lbs box truck to haul their tools to a job site. When I stop them, Penske number does not go on the inspection report. (This is one of the biggest Data Q's I see come into the office) Whoever rented the vehicle needs a USDOT number per the regulations. Just like the driver at that point needs a medical, etc.

    I had one the other week. Three guys delivering mattresses for a major mattress company. The guy driving owned a home delivery company that was contracted with the major mattress company to make home deliveries for them. The mattress company paid him to deliver and pick up the old mattresses. On the day he delivers, he rents a truck and gets two guys to help him. The Penske truck USDOT number does not go down as the carrier. The guy that rented it, needs the USDOT number, to go on the rental with the company name and other required information. Driver needs a medical and has to comply with the hours of service regulations.

    Almost 99% of the time when I stop someone like this, they do not have anything that is required.

  10. #9
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    Because utility vehicles are exempt, I would find out if it's required under state law. Being exempt from Federal law doesn't necessarily make you exempt from state law. The utility exemption doesn't specify that the utility has to own the vehicle.
    That being said, it's better to have one than not have one. If you return to the same place you start from every day, you can log it all as on duty not driving. If you spend the night away from home at the job site, you need to log your driving time same as a sleeper berth operation.
    If you have to buy your own log books, it's a tax deductible mandatory employee expense. So why not?

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselbear View Post
    I bet they are a motor carrier, but are not for hire and will not need a MC number. If it's over 10,000 lbs and used for commerce, they need a USDOT number. 10,001 lbs and used in commerce gets them into the regulations. For instance, a company that does not have any trucks, but today goes to Penske and rents a 26,000 lbs box truck to haul their tools to a job site. When I stop them, Penske number does not go on the inspection report. (This is one of the biggest Data Q's I see come into the office) Whoever rented the vehicle needs a USDOT number per the regulations. Just like the driver at that point needs a medical, etc.

    I had one the other week. Three guys delivering mattresses for a major mattress company. The guy driving owned a home delivery company that was contracted with the major mattress company to make home deliveries for them. The mattress company paid him to deliver and pick up the old mattresses. On the day he delivers, he rents a truck and gets two guys to help him. The Penske truck USDOT number does not go down as the carrier. The guy that rented it, needs the USDOT number, to go on the rental with the company name and other required information. Driver needs a medical and has to comply with the hours of service regulations.

    Almost 99% of the time when I stop someone like this, they do not have anything that is required.
    O.K. , I'm confused . How is a company that is not for hire a motor carrier ? I Coca Cola a motor carrier ?
    The guy delivering mattresses was a motor carrier . He did not own the goods he was delivering .

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