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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRUCK3R M1KE View Post
    Question 7's answer completely supports what i'm telling you.

    If you go back and forth between lines 1 and 2 for 5 hours, you'll need to still take an additional 8 hours in the sleep without interruption before driving, which means you just took a 13 hour break to be legal.

    I know 2 people with 2 different companies whose sole position is Logs. They are so well-educated on the FMCSA and logs, that they will correct DOT offices/officers when a driver is unjustly found to be in violation.

    You may be getting away with it, but that doesn't mean it's correct.

    But whatever. I'll keep doing it my way, knowing that no matter what, the validity of my rest period cannot be questioned unless someone has video proof that I interupted my sleeper by going off duty.
    No. If you are taking a 10 hour break, you can take those 10 hours in any combination of off-duty or sleeper berth time, going back and forth between lines 1 & 2 as often as you like for the duration of those 10 hours so long as you NEVER drop down onto lines 3 or 4. The "8 consecutive sleeper berth hours" ONLY comes into play when attempting to split your break into 2 segments...such as stop for dinner with some old friends for 2 hours off duty, then drive the last 3 hours to where you had planned to go for the night (as long as you have time to do so under the 14 hour rule). At this point, you can take 8 consecutive hours in the sleeper berth to complete your 10 hour split break. Keep in mind that at this point, you already have 3 driving hours counting against your 11 until you take another 2 hour break...at which point only the time from the end of your last 8 hour sleeper berth break counts against you.

    Quote Originally Posted by dude6710 View Post
    Well the company im leased to is dumb, technically we dont even need to log. I guess its so if they get an audit it looks pretty?
    They need to maintain a record of your hours worked, and those records must include the time you started, the time you stopped, the total number of hours worked for the day, your name, and the date.

    Quote Originally Posted by snowwy View Post
    show me where in the regs that it says you MUST BE IN THE SLEEPER FOR 10 HOURS DOING ABSOUTELY NOTHING BUT SLEEPING.



    that isn't going to happen to ANYBODY. sleeper birth is time off just like off duty. what i do with my time is MY TIME. if i want to fuel. eat. shower or buy something with my credit card. there ain't a darn anything any lawyer can do. the rules state a 10 hour break. and that's all your obliged to do. if you sit in the sleeper and can't sleep. really nothing anyone can do. cuz you did what the regs state.

    course. i'd hope one would be smart enough as to figure out a back up plan and not force themselve to drive a whole shift when they couldn't sleep during there break.


    but nowhere is it against the law that i can't buy something during my sleeper break. and as long as that time stamp is within the timefram of my sleeper birth. ain't a darn thing ANY lawyer can do. cuz i'm right where i'm supposed to be.

    SO CRASH AWAY. i did nothing wrong.

    and for the record. i usually DO buy something after i've parked. not all the time do i IMMEDIATELY crawl back to bed.
    On-duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On-duty time shall include:
    (1) All time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, waiting to be dispatched, unless the driver has been relieved from duty by the motor carrier;

    (2) All time inspecting, servicing, or conditioning any commercial motor vehicle at any time;

    (3) All driving time as defined in the term driving time;

    (4) All time in or on a commercial motor vehicle, other than:
    (i) Time spent resting in or on a parked vehicle, except as otherwise provided in 397.5 of this subchapter;
    (ii) Time spent resting in a sleeper berth; or
    (iii) Up to 2 hours riding in the passenger seat of a property-carrying vehicle moving on the highway immediately before or after a period of at least 8 consecutive hours in the sleeper berth;

    (5) All time loading or unloading a commercial motor vehicle, supervising, or assisting in the loading or unloading, attending a commercial motor vehicle being loaded or unloaded, remaining in readiness to operate the commercial motor vehicle, or in giving or receiving receipts for shipments loaded or unloaded;

    (6) All time repairing, obtaining assistance, or remaining in attendance upon a disabled commercial motor vehicle;

    (7) All time spent providing a breath sample or urine specimen, including travel time to and from the collection site, to comply with the random, reasonable suspicion, post-crash, or follow-up testing required by part 382 of this subchapter when directed by a motor carrier;

    (8) Performing any other work in the capacity, employ, or service of, a motor carrier; and

    (9) Performing any compensated work for a person who is not a motor carrier.


    If you are fueling the truck, you are on duty. If you log off duty while you fuel the truck, you are falsifying your log.

    If you are inside the truck stop eating, showering, or buying something, you are NOT in the sleeper berth. If you log sleeper berth time while you are not in the sleeper berth, you are falsifying your log. Likewise, if you are in the sleeper berth and logging off duty time, you are falsifying your log. The sleeper berth is the one place in or on a commercial motor vehicle that is NOT considered "on duty", which allows you to use it in order to take your break. The sleeper berth does not necessarily mean you are sleeping, and there are no rules stating that you MUST sleep while you are inside the sleeper. You simply must show the time you spend inside the sleeper berth on line 2, and any off duty time OUTSIDE of the sleeper berth must be recorded on line 1.

    Quote Originally Posted by RickG View Post
    Seriuosly , you're living wrong. 8 hours sleeper can only be combined with off duty time to toal 10 when the hours are consecutive . Also , the later 2 sleeper don't stop the clock . If you work 8 then take an 8 hour sleeper you have 6 left. If you work 4 more then take 2 sleeper your 14 is up .
    If you work 8 hours, then take 8 in the sleeper, you are correct that you have 6 hours remaining. However, if you work 4 more hours and then take 2 hours in the sleeper, you have completed the requirements of the split sleeper provision. The 8 hours you worked prior to taking the 8 hours in the sleeper no longer count against you as soon as you complete the 2 hour portion of the 8/2 split. In other words, you have 4 on duty hours and 2 off duty hours...a total of 6 hours...counting against your 14 at this point. That leaves 8 hours remaining that you can work before you need to take another 8 hours in the sleeper.

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  3. #62
    Road Train Member Guntoter's Avatar
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    Sorry Im late your Honor, I couldnt make my court appearance because I was out of hours.

    Does the fact that we all need a Lawyer in our truck to figure these laws out have anything to do with government trying to get us to just give up and say "just give me an EOBC"?

  4. #63
    Road Train Member Meltom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guntoter View Post
    Sorry Im late your Honor, I couldnt make my court appearance because I was out of hours.

    Does the fact that we all need a Lawyer in our truck to figure these laws out have anything to do with government trying to get us to just give up and say "just give me an EOBC"?
    It certainly seems that way, but keep in mind the more complicated they make it for the driver the more complicated they make it for the DOT. I'm not sure how many of those guys you've met, but they're just people. They've received some very basic training and that's about it. This makes me start to believe those that say the FMCSA isn't really about safety. If they were they'd make the regulations easier to understand. They regs should be basic enough that even your below average drivers can understand them, maybe the govt should take a course on technical writing.

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meltom View Post
    It certainly seems that way, but keep in mind the more complicated they make it for the driver the more complicated they make it for the DOT. I'm not sure how many of those guys you've met, but they're just people. They've received some very basic training and that's about it. This makes me start to believe those that say the FMCSA isn't really about safety. If they were they'd make the regulations easier to understand. They regs should be basic enough that even your below average drivers can understand them, maybe the govt should take a course on technical writing.
    When originally written, in the 1930s, they were written at a sixth grade reading level, as that was the average reading level of truck drivers, back then.
    I, myself, have a high school diploma, no higher than that and have very little problem understanding the rules, as written. The most confusing part to me is the split sleeper rule, but the rest are not confusing, at least to me.

  6. #65
    Road Train Member Meltom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autocar View Post
    When originally written, in the 1930s, they were written at a sixth grade reading level, as that was the average reading level of truck drivers, back then.
    I, myself, have a high school diploma, no higher than that and have very little problem understanding the rules, as written. The most confusing part to me is the split sleeper rule, but the rest are not confusing, at least to me.
    that's how I was, the plus side for me is I just sat my fat behind down and looked at the split log section, graphed it and what not until it sunk in. then I got myself a people net with eLogs to play with and I did the same thing there and tried different scenarios, and I read and read and read (with just a skosh of blue), mix gently then apply to real life.

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  8. #66
    Insignificant Otter otherhalftw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 48Packard View Post
    My memory isn't what it ever was supposed to be....but....



    Have we not had this conversation before???
    That was (several times) using the "OLD FORMAT"....everything starts fresh with the "upgrade" at TTR!!!!

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  10. #67
    Insignificant Otter otherhalftw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autocar View Post
    When originally written, in the 1930s, they were written at a sixth grade reading level, as that was the average reading level of truck drivers, back then.
    I, myself, have a high school diploma, no higher than that and have very little problem understanding the rules, as written. The most confusing part to me is the split sleeper rule, but the rest are not confusing, at least to me.
    So.....you are finally admitting you started being over qualified when you started....taking a high school diploma into the 6th grade environment...what a show off!!!!
    Oh this so fits this thread!!!!

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  12. #68
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    Thanks Otter. I wanted to get this back to the original question posted 60 plus posts ago and that, paraphrased a little was "Can you be on duty after the 14 is up?"

    Peoplenet was brought up and I have a friend who went to a company using Peoplenet, he got dinged for being on duty after his 14, he and I discussed it, and he basically told his safety guy that their interpretation of the 14 hour rule wasn't right, Peoplenet, not safety, called it wrong. He has been doing it since then, on occasion, he has to run to the end of his 14 and then log an inspection, those occassions happen to him more than to me and he runs regional specialized dry van, I run delivery from a reefer, almost always regional and multiple drop.

    I was wondering if anyone else has run across it. It could be posed that any automated system could be in error, if the person(s) setting it up didn't do it right, and the disagreements noted here aren't just here.

    Another thing, does everyone on elogs switch to line one when they get out of the sleeper? if not, they are falsifying their log just like the guys and gals on paper who neglect doing it. It was also mentioned, elsewhere, not on this thread, that anyone using paper and running over their hours was falsifying, that isn't true, either, as long as it is logged like it really happened , with the same notations that are applied to elogs after a violation of the rules.


    I check mine, when I feel like it, with the Eclipse logging software. I just wish I could leave it up and running. I found a glitch with Eclipse,in that I have to close that program to suspend my computer, so booting up, opening Eclipse, and updating,then shutting down, takes about 15 minutes of time from my 14.

    I usually run my 14 out a few or even less hours from home, it's good thing I don't mind sleeping too much.
    Last edited by 25(2)+2; 07.08.2012 at 11.18 AM. Reason:: typos

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  14. #69
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    This issue has come up at my place too...the 14 hour rule that is. The best clarification that I heard and often give on the working past 14 hour rule is that FMCSA has absolutely NO jurisdiction over regulating working hours, only regulating DRIVING hours in relation to those working hours. They can tell you when you can and can't drive. They can't tell you when you can and can't work (non driving). You can work 48 hour straight, but can't get in the drivers seat of a commercial vehicle until the 10/70 breaks are met. You can however wake up in 4 hours and go on duty again if needed.

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  16. #70
    Road Train Member Meltom's Avatar
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    Peoplenet was brought up and I have a friend who went to a company using Peoplenet, he got dinged for being on duty after his 14, he and I discussed it, and he basically told his safety guy that their interpretation of the 14 hour rule wasn't right, Peoplenet, not safety, called it wrong.
    I work with people net, and you can be on duty for weeks on end but it never shows a violation until driving begins. Don't get me wrong, I've heard another one from my department call someone for a 17 second violation followed by 15 minutes of on duty time. That was embarrassing.

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