logging pti's with rolling 8/2 splits

Discussion in 'Trucking Industry Regulations' started by double yellow, Mar 25, 2013.

  1. double yellow

    double yellow Road Train Member

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    With the new 30min mandated break, I'll be forced to run 8/2 splits to match the same daily productivity as before (namely the ability to legally drive 14 hours in a 24 hour period). But that will mean stacking 8/2 splits back to back rather than using them only on rare occasion as I have until now. The confusion lies in where one day ends and the next begins (with regard to pre & post trip inspections), especially after a few cycles...


    Example A (first qualifying break is 8 in sleeper):

    <14.1>
    ON 1/8hr (pti)
    Drive 5 1/2hr
    Sleeper 8hr
    <14.2>
    Drive 5 1/2hr
    ON 1/8hr (pti)
    </14.1>
    Off 2 hr
    <14.3>
    ON 1/8hr (pti)
    Drive 5 1/2hr
    </14.2>
    Sleeper 8hr
    <14.4>
    Drive 5 1/2hr
    ON 1/8hr (pti)
    </14.3>
    Off 2 hr
    <14.5>
    ON 1/8hr (pti)
    Drive 5 1/2hr
    </14.4>
    Sleeper 8hr
    <14.6>
    Drive 5 1/2hr
    ON 1/8hr (pti)
    </14.5>
    Off 2 hr

    So in the above example, there are what I'd best characterize as 3 "days" (33 hours driving), but 5 complete 14 hour clocks and the start of a 6th... This is how I am currently logging it -- pti's at the beginning & end of what would have been an 11 hour driving day (represented by odd # 14's -- 14.1, 14.3, 14.5) -- but it seems quite strange to log two pti's in the span of 2.5 hours and then none for 19 hours...


    Example B (first qualifying break is 2):
    <14.1>
    ON 1/8hr (pti)
    Drive 5 1/2hr
    Off 2 hr
    <14.2>
    Drive 5 1/2hr
    ON 1/8hr (pti)
    </14.1>
    Sleeper 8hr
    <14.3>
    ON 1/8hr (pti)
    Drive 5 1/2hr
    </14.2>
    Off 2 hr
    <14.4>
    Drive 5 1/2hr
    ON 1/8hr (pti)
    </14.3>
    Sleeper 8hr
    <14.5>
    ON 1/8hr (pti)
    Drive 5 1/2hr
    </14.4>
    Off 2hr
    <14.6>
    Drive 5 1/2hr
    ON 1/8hr (pti)
    </14.5>
    Sleeper 8hr


    So again, there are what I'd best characterize as 3 "days" (33 hours driving), but 5 complete 14 hour clocks and the start of a 6th... This is how I am currently logging it -- pti's at the beginning & end of what would have been an 11 hour driving day (represented by odd # 14's -- 14.1, 14.3, 14.5) and here the PTI's are separated by 8 hours which seems more reasonable to me.



    But is that correct, or am I supposed to be doing a pti at the beginning and end of each possible 14 hour segment (which would mean 10 pti's -- 5 pre, 5 post -- in the span of 3 "days" rather than the 6 I've been doing)? Or since the 8hr break is by definition a 14-hour extender, does that mean pti's only belong before/after the 2 hour breaks (which would mean you could go 29 hours between your 1st and 2nd pretrip)?
     
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  3. Dogbreath

    Dogbreath Light Load Member

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    Eleva, Wisconsin
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    I just got a head ache reading your thread and will only reply to the last paragraph here...sorry. Anyway, FMCSRs (396.11) states...".Every motor carrier shall require its drivers to report, and every driver shall prepare a report in writing at the completion of each day's work on each vehicle operated,..." So to answer your question driver...you would need to complete a post trip inspection at the end of each duty period (11 or 14 hour period)..which ever came first.

    Example...drive 8hrs, sleeper for 8 hours, drive the rest (3 hours)...now complete a post inspection since you completed your 11hr driving period then off to the sleeper for 2 more hours. I tell my drivers this:

    Flag your pre-trip (anything less than 15 mins) is flaggable...note time in the remarks line as you draw the city/state to start your driving. Most pre-trips can be done under 15 mins ONLY if the day (or shift) had a longer vehicle inspection (post inspection). I mandate from my drivers at least 15 mins on-duty time at the end of the duty shift as a post inspection/vehicle inspection (whatever you want to call it). A longer pre-trip inspection (15 mins) is required if you hook to a new trailer, start your work day away from the vehicle all together (went home and came back to work now) or using a new tractor all together.

    Hope this helps you.
     
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  4. Roadrealtor

    Roadrealtor Road Train Member

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    I think Dogbreath got confused by the "so easy to understand rules". The rule quoted says you have to report the inspectioon at the end of the day. There is probably another rule somewhere else that say when you have to do a pre trip.

    For double yellow, you are on e logs. Record it as you go since editing is no fun. I just don't know the answer on the original question. I know recap hours don't come back the way you drove them on e logs. If you leave today, at 23:45 and drive plus on duty is 11 hours, you will get 15 minutes back in 8 days and 10:45 back the next day. But, you didn't do 2 pre trips.

    I would think the logic should hold for the 8/2 breaks. But, who says it has to be logical.

    Check with the log dept. Then, ask around in safety, I bet you get different interpretations of the same rule.
     
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  5. snowwy

    snowwy Road Train Member

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    i couldn't make sense of his post either.

    why people have to make it more confusing that it really is is beyond me.

    inspection done before and end of SHIFT. not 2 in 5 hours and none for 19 hours. END OF EACH SHIFT which include 11 or 14 hours. end of story.

    and as for the 8/2. it don't work that way. you have to complete 10 HOURS OFF DUTY/SLEEPER before driving on your next shift. you can't go sleeper 8, then drive and take a 2 sometime during that next shift.

    you can, however, take a 2 hour break, THEN your 8 AFTER the shift.

    it's called 2/8 split. not 8/2 split. and THAT'S how it works.
     
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  6. scottied67

    scottied67 Road Train Member

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    It doesn't matter which time break you take first, either 2 or 8 or 8 or 2.

    The big mega carrier I am with wants us to log 15 minutes at the outset of each split break. Doing it that way kinda defeats the time saving one is trying to achieve. But what I have discovered works pretty well on the Elogs is to just log a pretrip and go about my split break day. At the beginning of the next driving shift, show 5- 8 minutes On Duty for 'Safety Check'. I should back that up, coming off 8 hours in the sleeper, they recommend showing some Off Duty time as well otherwise a law enforcement dude might have suspicions raised that you were not in the sleeper the whole time, you know what I mean, jumping on sleeper for 8 hours then immediately jumping on drive line, where and when did you use the facilities?
     
  7. double yellow

    double yellow Road Train Member

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    You do not need to take a 10 (continuous) hour break to access your 2nd 11 hours drive time using either example I posted and, regardless of colloquial name, the first qualifying break can be either:

    A) a 2 hour continuous block of off duty, sleeper, or combined off duty & sleeper
    B) a 8 hour continuous block in the sleeper


    I don't get why people keep trying to make it sound more simple than it is
    /sarcasm
     
  8. FatDaddy

    FatDaddy Road Train Member

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    I'm not sure if this answers the question but quite simply the way I log it anytime I do a split is pretrip and postrip inspections are done when taking the 8 hr portion of your break. When taking the 2 hr portion no need to log or flag a pti. Never been a problem and my logs are audited on a regular basis
     
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  9. snowwy

    snowwy Road Train Member

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    becuase there's misconception about the whole idea.

    i got told you couldn't split the 10 unless it was consecutive. in other words. the whole on duty is one session minus the break if you take but you still have to have the 10 as one session. regardless wether it's all sleeper or split sleeper AND off duty. ONE SESSION.
     
  10. Sly Fox

    Sly Fox Road Train Member

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    snowwy is right.

    An eight only gives you the rest of your 11/14 that is left going back to your last break of at least 2 consecutive hours.

    Say, you drive 11 hours, and take an 8. You have no time to drive after that. You may go Line 4, and then do two hours off, and then get your 11 again, but the 8 is not the important part. It's the 2.

    If you're starting out a fresh 11/14, and drive 5 hours, and do an 8 sleeper, you have 6 hours to drive. If you drive 5 hours, and then go into the sleeper again for 8, you have 6 hours to drive (the 8 hour counts back to the previous 8 as being your required 'two-hour break').

    In a traditional split sleeper, the 2 hour break does NOT stop your clocks. They are part OF your shift.

    If you start at 8am, log 15min pre-trip, and then drive for 4:45, it's now 1pm. You sit for two straight hours off-duty or sleeper (or mix of both). At 3pm, you now have 6:15 left for Line 3, but your 14 will still end at 10pm. That 2 hour break just ate up part of your gap between your 11 driving and your 14 on-duty clocks. Which means you have 1 more hour of free time. Of which, you've already used 15min for your pre-trip. So, really, you have 45min left available before you start running against your 14 hour clock.


    But, as snowwy was saying the two is any consecutive two-hours Line 1 or 2 (or combination of the two). The last two of a ten hour count toward it. A 2hr break in the middle of a shift counts. A previous 8-hour sleeper counts. Each time you try to log eight hours in the sleeper, you're logging a new sleeper berth exception. It calculates back to the last two hour break to determine how much time you have left before taking your next two hour break.

    And, being that the 2-hr doesn't stop your clocks, it's part of your shift. The sleeper is your 'reset'. So, when you come out of the sleeper, that's your pretrip. And when you go into the sleeper for eight, is when your post-trip inspection is done. Your two hour is no different than any other break you take in the middle of your shift. You're not 'reporting for duty'... you're already in the middle of your shift.
     
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