Trucking Jobs New Driver Jobs Flatbed Jobs Tanker Jobs Refrigerated Jobs Auto Hauler Jobs
Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst ... 45678 LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 71
  1. #51
    Bobtail Member
    Member Since
    Oct 2009
    Location
    westblocton,alabama
    Trucker?
    17 Years
    Age
    44
    Posts
    1
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked: 0 Times
    i got a ticket in alabama for this samr thing and now got to go to court to pay the ticket.it is going to cost me like 500.00 for this bull ####. so if any one thinks you can do it and can show me in the rules and regs. please do so....thanks


  2. #52
    Medium Load Member
    Member Since
    Feb 2009
    Location
    O-Zone
    Trucker?
    Trucking Industry
    Age
    58
    Posts
    352
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked: 239 Times
    Quote Originally Posted by LogsRus View Post
    I asked DOT today (the one's that come in an do an internal audit)
    about personal time.

    I asked about using the truck for personal use during your 10 hour break and he said yes you can go eat, shower etc. Now some companies (mine) want you to stay still (or move no further than around the truck stop area) so please make sure you do NOT break any company violations.

    I asked about driving home bobtail and logging it off duty and how it states "within resonable miles" and he said yeap that is very miss leading and needs to be worded with exact amount of miles.
    The trick here is yeah your company might say 60 miles is reasonable, but when it comes to DOT/legal issue's they have that room to say that is not reasonable. Now 20 miles is pretty reasonable, I would say "my opinion" 30 minutes of driving.


    When using the truck for personal use you would log this as off duty.

    Now Canada tells you specifically 75 klms, which in miles (at least the internet said) is 46.60 miles.

    Ok that's one of the questions. It was verbal so I could not copy and paste the answer to ya, you just have to believe me. I believe him but I will ask the other guy also to make sure the same answers for the most part.
    Question 26: If a driver is permitted to use a CMV for personal reasons, how must the driving time be recorded?

    Guidance: When a driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work, time spent traveling from a driverís home to his/her terminal (normal work reporting location), or from a driverís terminal to his/her home, may be considered off-duty time. Similarly, time spent traveling short distances from a driverís en route lodgings (such as en route terminals or motels) to restaurants in the vicinity of such lodgings may be considered off-duty time. The type of conveyance used from the terminal to the driverís home, from the driverís home to the terminal, or to restaurants in the vicinity of en route lodgings would not alter the situation unless the vehicle is laden. A driver may not operate a laden CMV as a personal conveyance. The driver who uses a motor carrierís CMV for transportation home, and is subsequently called by the employing carrier and is then dispatched from home, would be on-duty from the time the driver leaves home.

    A driver placed out of service for exceeding the requirements of the hours of service regulations may not drive a CMV to any location to obtain rest.
    If under load the vehicle cannot be used as a personal conveyance.

    Be safe.

  3. #53
    Medium Load Member
    Member Since
    Feb 2009
    Location
    O-Zone
    Trucker?
    Trucking Industry
    Age
    58
    Posts
    352
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked: 239 Times
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullwinkle View Post
    So, since there isn't any "specific" mileages or times noted, it is basically up to the discretion of the DOT man that pulls you over and the mood that he/she is in.

    I bobtailed from Augusta, Georgia to Fort Worth, Texas once when I was going to take some time off, rather than sitting all weekend waiting on a load. I logged it off-duty. It was my truck and my fuel, LOL. This was over 10 years ago, but I was wondering what would have happened had I had an encounter with a trooper along the way.
    Unless you drove back to Georgia to get a load it was on-duty not driving for dead head miles.

    Be safe.

  4. #54
    Medium Load Member
    Member Since
    Feb 2009
    Location
    O-Zone
    Trucker?
    Trucking Industry
    Age
    58
    Posts
    352
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked: 239 Times
    Quote Originally Posted by buck and a half View Post
    laden means pulling a trailer with any amount of load on it, unless of course you stopped at a home depot and bought and hauled some lumber for your personal use at home and had a receipt for it and not lying and getting caught with a bill of laden for it.
    Not quite, if you loaded a load and have not delivered it the driver is responsible for the load, hence the driver cannot log off-duty.

    Quote Originally Posted by buck and a half
    In the past used to be the only time you could use personal use is if you was bobtailing home with no trailer. I still believe thats how most dot interpret the law on this. If you are pulling your trailer home from unloading and going home with your own truck,technically you are on duty until you get home. If you went to the tire shop on a day off with your own truck with your truck and trailer empty and got new tires on it,maybe off duty maintenance time.
    No such thing as off-duty maintenance time:

    ß395.2 Definitions.

    As used in this part, the following words and terms are construed to mean:

    On duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On-duty time shall include:

    (1) All time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, waiting to be dispatched, unless the driver has been relieved from duty by the motor carrier;

    (2) All time inspecting, servicing, or conditioning any commercial motor vehicle at any time;
    Be safe.

  5. #55
    Medium Load Member
    Member Since
    Feb 2009
    Location
    O-Zone
    Trucker?
    Trucking Industry
    Age
    58
    Posts
    352
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked: 239 Times
    Quote Originally Posted by BearGator56 View Post
    But hey, it's perfectly fine to drive your POV after working 14 hours! lol

    I had to be put in "time out" at the La Grange, GA scale several months back. I asked the DOT man if I could bobtail home (30 miles away) instead of spending 10 hours there. He said no, because I was still "under dispatch." I just left my truck there, and had my girlfriend come get me.

    Sometimes, I think they make it up as they go along. No one really understands these "new" rules completely. It's idiotic how confusing it all is.
    The officer was 100% correct:

    Question 26: If a driver is permitted to use a CMV for personal reasons, how must the driving time be recorded?

    Guidance: When a driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work, time spent traveling from a driverís home to his/her terminal (normal work reporting location), or from a driverís terminal to his/her home, may be considered off-duty time. Similarly, time spent traveling short distances from a driverís en route lodgings (such as en route terminals or motels) to restaurants in the vicinity of such lodgings may be considered off-duty time. The type of conveyance used from the terminal to the driverís home, from the driverís home to the terminal, or to restaurants in the vicinity of en route lodgings would not alter the situation unless the vehicle is laden. A driver may not operate a laden CMV as a personal conveyance. The driver who uses a motor carrierís CMV for transportation home, and is subsequently called by the employing carrier and is then dispatched from home, would be on-duty from the time the driver leaves home.

    A driver placed out of service for exceeding the requirements of the hours of service regulations may not drive a CMV to any location to obtain rest.
    Be safe.

  6. #56
    Medium Load Member
    Member Since
    Feb 2009
    Location
    O-Zone
    Trucker?
    Trucking Industry
    Age
    58
    Posts
    352
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked: 239 Times
    Quote Originally Posted by BobC
    Once the truck & you are relieved from duty to the company, i.e., not performing business of any kind for the benefit of the company, you are no longer in the business of interstate transportation of commodities.
    Deadhead, is deadhead regardless of whether you're an O/O or company driver. If you unload in Georgia and drive to Texas you will reload in Texas no Georgia; therefore, there is commerce involved in the movement. Now if you quit the carrier, remove the signs, turn in all of your equipment then there is no commerce. An O/O's bobtail insurance is just that, bobtail insurance. Any time the tractor is connected to a trailer the vehicle is under the operating carrier's insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobC
    Once you are not in the business of transporting commodities across interstate lines, you are no longer subject to the FMCSA rules et al.
    That's your interpretation and you are welcome to use it when you operate under your own US DOT/MC number thereby ensuring any penalties would be your own and not your employer's.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobC
    Everything I've stated is in the rules.
    It's just my interpretations of the rules.
    I used the strictest interpretations I could.
    I'd say the loosest interpretations you could.

    I'm toying with the idea of presenting this very scenario to an FMCSA ALJ (Administrative Law Judge) for a real official determination. A kind of a "mock court" thing.
    The only time an ALJ would review the issue is if it was challenged during a case and the ALJ needed to make a determination of whether the case was sound.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobC
    I just haven't taken the time to contact any of them to see if they would be willing to donate some of their time to the proposal. They're busy people you know.
    You may review ALJ and FMCSA case studies at
    http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#home

    Quote Originally Posted by BobC
    My understanding of my forum friends' disagreement is that he has seen drivers try to use that personal conveyance thing as a way to cheat hours of travel time in a big way. The courts also ruled against these drivers.
    Most cases are prepared against the carrier for false logs. Drivers may receive tickets and placed OOS during a roadside inspection. If the driver runs the OOS order then an addition case may be prepared by the state and/or the feds.

    However, in reading the transcripts of the driver's cases, I saw where they were trying to cheat as well & I agreed with the courts findings..in those cases. In a few other cases, I never saw the intent to cheat yet the courts ruled against the driver. I personally would have appealed those rulings.
    A false log is a false log, if a driver logs sleeper berth ij New York, NY and has toll tickets for the time frame it's a false log as the driver cannot drive from the sleeper berth regardless of whether the driver could have logged off-duty for personal conveyance.

    If an investigator can prove a false log hid an HOS violation the penalty is $11,000 for a deliberate false log opposed to $1,200 for a false log.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobC
    These HOS & other rules can be ambiguous at best & open to interpretation from everyone involved. Very poorly written.
    Only to those not happy with the HOS who want to circumvent the HOS.

    Be safe.

  7. #57
    Medium Load Member
    Member Since
    Feb 2009
    Location
    O-Zone
    Trucker?
    Trucking Industry
    Age
    58
    Posts
    352
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked: 239 Times
    Quote Originally Posted by Gazoo View Post
    What about hooking up a race car trailer or camper to my commercially registered truck? On duty or off?
    The race car going to an event where you paid entry fees and the winner received cash? Commerce.

    Camper? You going to your rental property to do some work? Commerce.

    Be safe.

  8. #58
    Medium Load Member
    Member Since
    Feb 2009
    Location
    O-Zone
    Trucker?
    Trucking Industry
    Age
    58
    Posts
    352
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked: 239 Times
    Quote Originally Posted by bullhaulerswife View Post
    Ok, I'm a little confuse here. So let me pose a question specifically on our situation. O/O delivers load 26 miles from home, drives to truck wash in home town, drops trailer for washout, then bobtails home.

    Can he log off duty from the time he drops the load, or the time that he drops the trailer?

    Thanks
    After completeing the wash out the O/O is off-duty:

    ß395.2 Definitions.

    As used in this part, the following words and terms are construed to mean:

    On duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On-duty time shall include:
    (1) All time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, waiting to be dispatched, unless the driver has been relieved from duty by the motor carrier;

    (2) All time inspecting, servicing, or conditioning any commercial motor vehicle at any time;
    Be safe.

  9. #59
    Medium Load Member
    Member Since
    Feb 2009
    Location
    O-Zone
    Trucker?
    Trucking Industry
    Age
    58
    Posts
    352
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked: 239 Times
    Quote Originally Posted by L.B. View Post
    OK, good call.

    Here's another question for all:

    If you are an O/O and own your trailer and are empty, can it be logged as offduty since you are not pulling someone elses property?

    LB
    Deadhead miles are deadhead miles. If you're headed some where else and you'll load in another town it's deadhead miles.

    Be safe.

  10. #60
    Medium Load Member
    Member Since
    Feb 2009
    Location
    O-Zone
    Trucker?
    Trucking Industry
    Age
    58
    Posts
    352
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked: 239 Times
    Quote Originally Posted by L.B. View Post
    But it was my understanding that if you were responsible for getting the equipment somewhere, i.e. maintenance, then you had to log on duty. If you could log off duty for that I don't see why you couldn't log offduty to run home with an empty trailer after delivering a load close to home.

    Logs!! Help us here!!!

    LB
    You cannot pull a truck or trailer for service anywhere without being on-duty or driving:

    Question 2: Are the FMCSRs applicable to drivers and CMVs which transport tools, equipment, and supplies across State lines in a CMV?
    Guidance: Yes, the FMCSRs are applicable to drivers and CMVs in interstate commerce which transport property. The property in this situation is the tools, equipment and supplies.

    Question 5: Are personnel involved in road testing CMVs across a State line subject to the FMCSRs?
    Guidance: Yes, any driver (including mechanics, technicians, driver trainees and other personnel) operating a CMV in interstate commerce must be in compliance with the FMCSRs

    Question 7: Are Red Cross vehicles/drivers subject to the FMCSRs?
    Guidance: Red Cross vehicles/drivers used to provide emergency relief under the provisions of ß390.23 are not subject to the FMCSRs while providing the relief. However, these vehicles/drivers would be subject when operating at other times, provided they are used in interstate commerce and the vehicles meet the definition of a CMV.

    On duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On-duty time shall include:

    (1) All time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, waiting to be dispatched, unless the driver has been relieved from duty by the motor carrier;

    (2) All time inspecting, servicing, or conditioning any commercial motor vehicle at any time;


    The rules are clear regarding when the drivr and vehicle are subject if you know where to look. Some wish to debate the issue hoping to shave off hours used for maintenance and other non freight hauling time to save their hours. The fact is if you're caught during the trip or at your employer's chances are some one will time and money or money and time to fix what's broke.

    Be safe.

Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst ... 45678 LastLast