When am I required to log? Under 26k & over 10k

Discussion in 'Trucking Industry Regulations' started by Bdog, Nov 6, 2014.

  1. Bdog

    Bdog Road Train Member

    1,057
    874
    Nov 6, 2014
    0
    We have several pickups with goosenecks and all are under 26k both in actual weight and gcvwr. All are over 10k though and we are engaged in interstate commerce. Therefore when pulling the trailers for work in another state the drivers have to have medical card, log book, and we have a DOT number. We do not fall under dot regulations when working in our home state. We basically travel around the country doing jobs that take us about 5 days each on average.

    My question involves some gray areas or at least gray to me regarding when we have to log and when we don't.

    scenario 1: pickup out of state with no trailer but GVWR over 10k. Does the driver need to log when not actually working? Say for example we are in another state but work mon-fri and employees get weekends off and go running around doing personal things in company truck on weekend or in the evenings after work when they go to eat in the company truck. Do the DOT rules apply? I can see it not being interstate commerce because they are not technically working but then I can see it being classified as IC because they would not even be there if they were not working.

    Scenario 2: we leave our home base for an out of state job. We are doing log books from the time we leave home to the out of state job. We are there 5 days and then travel to our home state (but hundreds of miles from our base location) and do a five day job there. We do log books on the trip from the other state to the home state job. Does our logging requirement stop once we check into the motel at the home state job or are we required to log until we get back home since we are still technically on our trip which involved interstate commerece?
     
  2. Truckers Report Jobs

    Trucking Jobs in 30 seconds

    Every month 400 people find a job with the help of TruckersReport.

  3. joseph1135

    joseph1135 Papa Murphy

    11,340
    27,291
    Nov 8, 2009
    The Highway To Hell.
    0
    If you're using the vehicle for commercial purposes, you must log. See all those guys pulling campers? They have to log too.
     
  4. G/MAN

    G/MAN Road Train Member

    7,031
    8,621
    Sep 3, 2010
    0
    If I remember correctly, you need to log if you travel more than 150 air miles from your home base or if you cross state lines. You can use your truck for personal use without logging the time as long as it is for personal use. So, if your guys are staying in a motel and using the truck to take care of personal business, such as meals, etc., you don't need to log that time. I would just log it off duty. You should find that information on the fmcsa website.
     
  5. Moving Forward

    Moving Forward Heavy Load Member

    723
    707
    Jan 14, 2014
    New England, USA
    0
    Be careful, as there is a whole lot of gray area and itseems to depend on how both you and the DOT officer pulling you over understandwhat the law means… tons of info at http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/part/395

    BTW, the “Guidance” tab hassome great info that isn’t full of the legal jargon BS.
    Here’s one particular section that might help you:
    “Question 14: How must a Commercial Motor Vehicle CMVdriver driving a non-Commercial Motor Vehicle CMV at the direction of a motorcarrier record this time?

    Guidance:
    If Commercial MotorVehicle CMV drivers operate motor vehicles with Gross Vehicle Weight Rating(GVWR)s of 10,000 pounds or less at the direction of a motor carrier, theFederal Highway Administration (FHWA) requires those drivers to maintainrecords of duty status and record such time operating as on-duty (not driving).”


    Source:
    http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/395.2?guidance

    HOWEVER, I'm still curious what that means in relation to the mandatory 30-minute break within the first eight hours of work?

     
  6. G/MAN

    G/MAN Road Train Member

    7,031
    8,621
    Sep 3, 2010
    0
    You need to log a 30 minute break during your first 8 hours of driving. It should be logged as off duty, but will count against your 14 hours. I think those who come up with some of these rules smoke too much weed.
     
  7. Bdog

    Bdog Road Train Member

    1,057
    874
    Nov 6, 2014
    0
    Ok, but is it still DOT regulated or is it just like driving a personal vehicle? One question my guys have is about beer. as you know it is strictly prohibited to have it on board a CMV. Guys are wondering about legal issues of say going in a work truck (dually empty but GVWR of 12k) after work to grocery store and buying beer to drink back at motel. Is this a no no because they are a CMV the whole time they are out of state or is it ok because they are off duty and it is personal use?
     
  8. G/MAN

    G/MAN Road Train Member

    7,031
    8,621
    Sep 3, 2010
    0

    You are using it as a personal conveyance. As long as the drivers are not drinking while driving, I would not worry about it. Some rules are a little vague when it comes to the DOT. You should be able to use the truck as a personal conveyance and not log the time driving as long as you stay within about a 50 mile radius. They could drop the trailer at the motel, but I don't see why they should have a problem. If you have serious doubts, you could always stop at a scale and ask their opinion.
     
  9. brian991219

    brian991219 Road Train Member

    2,778
    5,350
    Aug 10, 2013
    Lords Valley, PA
    0
    G/MAN has the right answer, if they are unladen, meaning no trailer or cargo, then they can use the truck for personal conveyance, but no they can not carry alcohol as it is still a commercial truck and all the DOT rules still apply. They would log it as off duty and I would make a note of the miles used for personal conveyance in the remarks section on the bottom of the log. The total miles box up top has to reflect all the miles put on the truck in the 24 hour period the log covers, the total miles driving box shows all the miles that the driver drove an line 3, these numbers will be the same if you do not team driver or use the truck after hours. If you use the truck after hours then these will be different and you will need to show why in the remarks. Personal conveyance, sometimes called off duty driving, is allowed to and from lodging, meals, shopping, etc so long as you do not do any business, carry any cargo, or re-position the truck to be in a better place for dispatch, that would be on duty.

    If your driver were to get into an accident the DOT rules would apply, including reporting and drug test (if a cdl is required) so be sure they are not drinking and driving or anything like that, same as unauthorized passengers, only employees and people you have given them written permission to have in the truck, in other words don't pick up a local girl and bring her on a date, you can be fined for unauthorized passengers.

    Bottom line, if they are just running around whatever local town they are working in after the work day I would not worry, during the day they need to log all their work, even non-driving time and be in compliance with the Federal rules meaning, if they are doing labor that must be shown as on duty not driving and if they drive outside of the local town then that needs to be shown as driving, if they stay within the same town that driving time is allowed to be shown as on duty not driving. They could not work all day as a technician or laborer, carpenter, whatever it is you do then at the end of the day/week hook up to the trailer and drive back home, they would need to be sure they had enough of a break to allow for adequate hours on their log book. All compensated work (and in some cases uncompensated work) must be accounted for on your log book, not just motor carrier related work.
     
  10. Moving Forward

    Moving Forward Heavy Load Member

    723
    707
    Jan 14, 2014
    New England, USA
    0
    So if we're on duty but not driving for three hours before getting behind the wheel, that 8-hour clock for a break doesn't start until we're actually driving? I thought it started as soon as we go on-duty... and my manager doesn't know the laws at all. Thanks for your help G/MAN.
     
  11. G/MAN

    G/MAN Road Train Member

    7,031
    8,621
    Sep 3, 2010
    0
    It is my understanding that the break should be taken after you start driving. You can take your break any time during the first 8 hours of driving.
     
  • Truckers Report Jobs

    Trucking Jobs in 30 seconds

    Every month 400 people find a job with the help of TruckersReport.