[QUOTE=An interesting interpretation; however, I can find nothing in the FMCSR excluding tow truck drivers from endorsements. The emergency exception in Part 390 applies to Part 390 – 399. Part 383.3 has exceptions for firefighters and police; however, since tow-trucks have no lights and siren the exception would not apply. Without a specific exception in the FMCSR the interpretation does not have a solid base to exist/QUOTE]

I agree. I would like to see the exact reference and not an interpretation. I seached the FMCSR site for tow trucks and they do exclude the tow truck from a few regulations but none that I saw dealt with CDL's. Also the emergency has to be defined by the federal, state, or local LEO's among other situations like what we saw when the hurricane hit the south.

Rick, you could be right when the trucks are powered with flammable gas or liquid but diesel is only combustible. However, with all the new studies going into alterative fuels it's something to watch. As far as the bond goes that applies to everyone hauling hazardous materials. At some gasoline loading facilities they require a 2 million dollar bond, but that's their own requirement. You've got 10 years on me so I'll concede to you out of respect. However, all I can tell you is what we did at a major oil company and the shipping papers never included the fuel in the tank as part of the load. If we had a 1000 gallons of product to return to the terminal it was classified as residue since it was less than 1001 gallons. You can believe me when I tell you that our company had a seperate division for compliance and all they did was ensure that we were loaded and marked correctly. It wasn't the fines or tickets that got the company to oversee operations it was the liability they were worried about. You know how it goes with deep pockets.

We run dedicated Hazmat and have to keep the placards on unless the trailer is washed out even if we have only 5 gallons of residue .
You don't have to concede anything to me . There are drivers that have only been out here a couple of years that are more knowledgeable than me in some areas .

Originally Posted by RickG

We run dedicated Hazmat and have to keep the placards on unless the trailer is washed out even if we have only 5 gallons of residue .
You don't have to concede anything to me . There are drivers that have only been out here a couple of years that are more knowledgeable than me in some areas .

I trust with your years that you would know or where to look. It's ok by me if you like it the other way.

[quote=GasHauler;812014][quote=An interesting interpretation; however, I can find nothing in the FMCSR excluding tow truck drivers from endorsements. The emergency exception in Part 390 applies to Part 390 – 399. Part 383.3 has exceptions for firefighters and police; however, since tow-trucks have no lights and siren the exception would not apply. Without a specific exception in the FMCSR the interpretation does not have a solid base to exist/QUOTE]
I agree. I would like to see the exact reference and not an interpretation. I seached the FMCSR site for tow trucks and they do exclude the tow truck from a few regulations but none that I saw dealt with CDL's. Also the emergency has to be defined by the federal, state, or local LEO's among other situations like what we saw when the hurricane hit the south.

Well the intrepretaion was placed there by the feds. The reason the intrepretation is there is for guidance. In my State we have to enforce the regulation and verify if there is an intrepreation or not. If the intrepretation applies to that scenario we have to use that as the rule, i.e the question I posed. Someone, somewhere challenged this and this is the intrpretation that the feds put out for this scenario. If you don't follow this intrepration, I can only speak of the State I work in, and it is contested in a court of law the judge looks to the intreprations as a guidance. If you have the newer large Federal reg. book, the intrepretations are posted just after the regulation now, instead of in the rear of the book. If you use the website www.fmcsa.dot.gov the interpretations are a seperate link to the right upper corner of the page. We know that there is not any regulations that contradict each other, yeah right. Ask any inspector that is certifed in HAZ-MAT there is an exemption for a lot of things. why if you conduct a HAZ-MAT inspection and use the HazMAt book and look up every commodity and use Table 1 and Table 2 then check every exemption, bulk or non bulk regs, compatability chart and everything else involved in a HazMAt inspection it takes for ever. PS Anderson could probably chime in and give you the reasons for the interpretations. Over 9 years ago when I first went to through my first inspector class, the interpretations had to be check then and we still teach it now that they have to be checked as part of your inspection. Mike MD I believe you are a inspector now and I'm sure you had the same North American Standard classes I had and I would imagine you have to follow the CVSA Out of Service Criteria as well. A good majority of the test questions from the North American Standard classes, Level III, Level I, Haz Mat, bulk packaging, Level VI, cargo tank, motorcoach etc come from the intrepretations. I know motor carrier's challenge the violations everyday that my Agency puts on the inspection reports. Motor Carriers do not want any violations on the reports to negatively impact the ISS rating. Motor Carriers challenge the violations either directly to the Agency and as the inspector involved a few times over the years you better cover all your bases and dot your I's and cross your T's or it's my rear end that will be on the short end. Trust me in what I'm saying, A guy I worked with placed a truck OOS and it should not have been. Load was a seafood load that was rejected because it was late. Talk about a tap dance I wouldn't want to be involved in. The other way carriers now object to there violations on the reports is through Data Q. Same deal, the inspector is contacted and asked why you put violation XYZ on the report. If there is an intrepretation that applies to the scenario and you didn't use the guidance, the violation is coming off the report and if you wrote a citation for the violation, more horsepower for the defendant at trial.

Originally Posted by Mike_MD

An interesting interpretation; however, I can find nothing in the FMCSR excluding tow truck drivers from endorsements. The emergency exception in Part 390 applies to Part 390 – 399. Part 383.3 has exceptions for firefighters and police; however, since tow-trucks have no lights and siren the exception would not apply. Without a specific exception in the FMCSR the interpretation does not have a solid base to exist

Originally Posted by GasHauler

I agree. I would like to see the exact reference and not an interpretation. I seached the FMCSR site for tow trucks and they do exclude the tow truck from a few regulations but none that I saw dealt with CDL's. Also the emergency has to be defined by the federal, state, or local LEO's among other situations like what we saw when the hurricane hit the south.

Originally Posted by dieselbear

Well the intrepretaion was placed there by the feds. The reason the intrepretation is there is for guidance. In my State we have to enforce the regulation and verify if there is an intrepreation or not. If the intrepretation applies to that scenario we have to use that as the rule, i.e the question I posed. Someone, somewhere challenged this and this is the intrpretation that the feds put out for this scenario. If you don't follow this intrepration, I can only speak of the State I work in, and it is contested in a court of law the judge looks to the intreprations as a guidance. If you have the newer large Federal reg. book, the intrepretations are posted just after the regulation now, instead of in the rear of the book. If you use the website www.fmcsa.dot.gov the interpretations are a seperate link to the right upper corner of the page. We know that there is not any regulations that contradict each other, yeah right. Ask any inspector that is certifed in HAZ-MAT there is an exemption for a lot of things. why if you conduct a HAZ-MAT inspection and use the HazMAt book and look up every commodity and use Table 1 and Table 2 then check every exemption, bulk or non bulk regs, compatability chart and everything else involved in a HazMAt inspection it takes for ever. PS Anderson could probably chime in and give you the reasons for the interpretations. Over 9 years ago when I first went to through my first inspector class, the interpretations had to be check then and we still teach it now that they have to be checked as part of your inspection. Mike MD I believe you are a inspector now and I'm sure you had the same North American Standard classes I had and I would imagine you have to follow the CVSA Out of Service Criteria as well. A good majority of the test questions from the North American Standard classes, Level III, Level I, Haz Mat, bulk packaging, Level VI, cargo tank, motorcoach etc come from the intrepretations. I know motor carrier's challenge the violations everyday that my Agency puts on the inspection reports. Motor Carriers do not want any violations on the reports to negatively impact the ISS rating. Motor Carriers challenge the violations either directly to the Agency and as the inspector involved a few times over the years you better cover all your bases and dot your I's and cross your T's or it's my rear end that will be on the short end. Trust me in what I'm saying, A guy I worked with placed a truck OOS and it should not have been. Load was a seafood load that was rejected because it was late. Talk about a tap dance I wouldn't want to be involved in. The other way carriers now object to there violations on the reports is through Data Q. Same deal, the inspector is contacted and asked why you put violation XYZ on the report. If there is an intrepretation that applies to the scenario and you didn't use the guidance, the violation is coming off the report and if you wrote a citation for the violation, more horsepower for the defendant at trial.

Question 5: Do tow truck operators need CDLs? If so, in what vehicle group(s)?

Guidance: For CDL purposes, the tow truck and its towed vehicle are treated the same as any other powered unit towing a non-powered unit:

—If the GCWR of the tow truck and its towed vehicle is 26,001 pounds or more, and the towed vehicle alone exceeds 10,000 pounds GVWR, then the driver needs a Group A CDL.

—If the GVWR of the tow truck alone is 26,001 pounds or more, and the driver either (a) drives the tow truck without a vehicle in tow, or (b) drives the tow truck with a towed vehicle of 10,000 pounds or less GVWR, then the driver needs a Group B CDL.

—A driver of a tow truck or towing configuration that does not fit either configuration description above, requires a Group C CDL only if he or she tows a vehicle required to be placarded for hazardous materials on a ‘‘subsequent move,’’ i.e. after the initial movement of the disabled vehicle to the nearest storage or repair facility.

13/21/2007 IL-2007-318 Compliance Review

172.800(b)Transporting HM without a security plan. 1 $3,830.00

387.7(a)Inadequate or no financial responsibility 1 $1,520.00

The case above was on a towing company for a subsequent move from the accident site to central IL. The accident occurred inside a closed compound where the vehicle rolled. The tow company righted the vehicle then a day or two later towed the MC331 cargo tank to a repair facility.

http://ai.volpe.dot.gov/SafeStat/Saf...m=&PageN=EH#EH

I had my first NASTI class 11/1998 in Denver, CO while working for the Port of Entry in Cortez, CO. I had a second dose about 03/2000 in Orlando, FL for Uncle Sam. I do about 32 Level I or V to stay qualified, the rest are Level III or Level IV while working details with the FRA.

I've requested clarification on the interpretations to see where the ghost in the machine comes from.

Be safe.

I'll be completely honest here and say I have never seen interpretations to the rules. I've seen definitions and exemptions which always clarified any questions with no problems. I'm sure they are on the net but not all drivers have the net. I have 49CFR 100 to 177, pocketbooks for FMCSR and Hazardous Materials Compliance, and drivers handbooks for CDL's and no where does it talk about interpretations so how is a driver to know? It sounds like the inspectors have a way out for the inspector. I must admit that I have never been in question with my driving or the vehicles that I have drove. If there is a rule that is spelled out to the T then I take that for what is required. If you can throw in any interpretation and it takes a court to decide then the system is in need of more repair than I thought. And I believe that most courts have no idea of all the rules with CMV. That belief was confirmed when I talk to a representative of the FMCSA and he told me that most courts are not up to speed on the federal rules and regulations. They even have a program that teaches the judges and will pay them if they teach other judges.

Interpretations are like asking for directions on the CB radio. There is no set standard and one day you may have decision A and the next you'll have decision B which is completely different than A. I don't believe that my company dealt with interpretations. I know we have a compliance department and every item on the truck or the operating procedures were never in question. But like I said I haven't run into this problem before.

So if you could can you please send me a link so I can come up to speed I would feel more comfortable? Thank you.

Interesting discussion, and somewhat related;
Years ago, a crane loaded a 3/4 full 10,000 gallon capacity diesel skid tank for a drilling rig onto a friends 5 axle lowboy trailer. As he was leaving the drill site, turning onto highway, a carload of drunk er... citizens, rounded a curve failing to stop for the flagman, hitting friends truck, knocking it out of commission. Although the company had their own wrecker, they simply sent the wrecker driver with another truck to hook onto the lowboy. The state trooper allowed the driver to hook onto the trailer, back it onto the location, but he could not leave as the wrecker driver did not have an X endorsement.
Trooper didn't buy into the first tow from an accident scene thing, citing no wrecker was used. Yes, the wrecker driver intended to deliver the tank to the new drill site location, which was actually closer, and somewhat en route to company yard.

Gas,

The larger book, not the pocket books, are the ones we use. But if you have the net they are there as well. Go to www.fmcsa.dot.gov . Pull up "Rules and Regulations". Pick a part, say 383. Go to 383.91 for example. When the regulation is pulled up look to the right upper side of the page. You will see "Interpretations". Click it and you will see a number of "questions and Guidance" You'll spend weeks reading interpretations. On the part about judges. I work all over my State in over 14 different counties. Some judges know the regs. and some judges have no clue. Just like the regular Road Troopers in my State, unless they are certified inspectors, have no clue about anything related to a truck. The Troops assigned to my unit get called all the time when a road guy has one stopped. When I posed this question I didn't mean to get anyone up in arms. I wanted to see what the forum thought. You're right when you say one time you get this and one time you get that. That is not supposed to be. I stop a fella the other day, and yes this was the worst driver I have dealt with in over 12 years as a Trooper. Guy was a complete_________(insert anything your imagination can think of). But I located a previous inspection from November that was conducted on this fine gentleman. He was placed OOS for tires on the truck and trailer. The drives and rear tandems had dual tires not the super single. Well the Inspector placed him OOS for "4th axle right inner less 1/32", 5th axle left outter less than 1/32", and 2nd axle right inner less than 1/32". Well it's a violation, that does not meet the OOS criteria. Turns out this inspector is from a allied agency in my State. Which this Agency has always and continues to come up with "crap" that is not OOS and still place guys OOS. I have filed numerous complaints on them with our Agency as it is the lead Agency for Motor Carrier Operations. I stop a lot of trucks after this "Agency" stops them. I find one of two things, the first what I already described or they will type up the inspection and when they conducted the inspection Stevie Wonder must have done it for them. That is the one thing that drives me crazy. I'm sure PS Anderson and Mike MD can tell you that the Inspection is supposed to be the same wheahter it's down in Oregon or Florida and anywhere in between. So that is the one thing I am a stickler on. I get it all the time about log book regs. Driver states "But in North Carolina DOT told me this. In Florida DOT told me this and now you are telling me this." I understand this because I travel all over the country and teach and see the different departments. I can tell which officers are knuckleheads and do what they want to do. There is no changing them, until they get jammed up and sued or fired. For the most part this forum has very accurate info on many of the regs. The only thing I see is different criminal codes which vary from state to state. Concealed carrying firearms comes to mind. I'll look and locate another brain teaser for you Gasman.