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  1. #1
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    11 hour rule violation (Property)

    I am looking at safestat for a company that I worked at for 2 weeks. What does the “Property” portion of the violation mean?


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    Quote Originally Posted by smokyjuan View Post
    I am looking at safestat for a company that I worked at for 2 weeks. What does the “Property” portion of the violation mean?
    It was a carrier of property as opposed to a passenger (people) carrier. There are different rules for Hours of Service for property and passenger carriers. The property carrier (11-hour) rule is 395.3(a)(1). The passenger carrier (10-hour) rule is 395.5(a)(1).

    From a retired federal DOT official
    Last edited by psanderson; 04.08.2009 at 12.46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by psanderson View Post
    It was a carrier of property as opposed to a passenger (people) carrier. There are different rules for Hours of Service for property and passenger carriers. The property carrier (11-hour) rule is 395.3(a)(1). The passenger carrier (10-hour) rule is 395.5(a)(1).

    From a retired federal DOT official
    Excellent answer.
    What did a driver do most likely to get a “False report of driver’s record of duty status”? Was the log book for fueling compared to a fuel receipt?

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    Quote Originally Posted by psanderson View Post
    It was a carrier of property as opposed to a passenger (people) carrier. There are different rules for Hours of Service for property and passenger carriers. The property carrier (11-hour) rule is 395.3(a)(1). The passenger carrier (10-hour) rule is 395.5(a)(1).

    From a retired federal DOT official
    If a driver received a, “No drivers record of duty status”, does that mean there was no logging since the driver logged the start of a 10 hour break?

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    Why are you asking these questions? As a retired federal special agent I continue to be an eternal pessimist and your second and third questions sound too questionable for someone that states he/she has been driving for 5-years.

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    Merge

    Can I ask a question on the hours subject? I have a part time driving job in the am and just got offered a part time driving job in the afternoon/evening. Total driving time shouldn't exceed 11 hours in a day but, what about the 10 conecutive hours off. Say I get off the evening job at 9:00pm and have to drive at 4:30am morning job. Wouldn't this run into DOT restrictions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by psanderson View Post
    Why are you asking these questions? As a retired federal special agent I continue to be an eternal pessimist and your second and third questions sound too questionable for someone that states he/she has been driving for 5-years.
    The first carrier that I drove for 2 years with was Crete Carrier that currently has a DRSEA of 21.07 and a VHSEA of 28.57 on the SafeStat website. I resigned for a position with ABF which currently has a DRSEA of 15.89 and a VHSEA of 33.76. On January 12, 2009 after two and one half years with ABF they laid me off.

    I could not sleep at night due to my lack of employment and accepted an offer from a company that has a DRSEA 63.84 and a VHSEA of 44.46. I worked for them for two weeks and was pulled into the scales for a level three inspection. There were no violations and I was on my way. After two weeks ABF called me back to work for them. On March 1, 2009 ABF again told me that they had no work for me.

    I wanted to wait until April 1 to start working for another carrier because I felt that ABF would call me back. My wife had been reading all of the news reports saying that the current economy was in a depression and not a recession and she could not sleep at night.

    I checked with other drivers that were laid off and found a company that would normally have you out for only one night, then back home again to sleep in your own bed. The driver by no means bragged about the company but they were hiring. I went to work for them and then after a couple of trips I was again pulled in to the scales for another level 3 inspection. Again there were no violations and I was on my way. While in the scale house the officer administering the level 3 inspection asked the officer operating the scale why I was pulled in. The response was the officer operating the scale did not recognize the name of the carrier that I was driving for. This carrier only has 18 trucks. My last level 3 inspection was 3 years ago, then I get 2 in seven weeks.

    I went home and checked their SafeStat scores. DRSEA 94.08 VHSEA 59.23 and SMSEA 98.28. I felt really stupid for not checking their SafeStat scores before accepting an offer from them to drive for them. I felt like I would be getting called into the scale house twice a month and would eventually be getting a ticket.

    ABF has again called me back to work, but for how long I do not know.
    I was looking at the detail on SafeStat for the last carrier and wondered what the other drivers were doing to get citations. I understand descriptions of speeding, following to close, illegal lane change, Failure to obey traffic control device, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by psanderson View Post
    Why are you asking these questions? As a retired federal special agent I continue to be an eternal pessimist and your second and third questions sound too questionable for someone that states he/she has been driving for 5-years.
    Actually, it could be that someone would be interested in how the officer came to find the logbook as false. Not saying that this driver is interested, but many would not understand the finding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fourknuckle View Post
    Can I ask a question on the hours subject? I have a part time driving job in the am and just got offered a part time driving job in the afternoon/evening. Total driving time shouldn't exceed 11 hours in a day but, what about the 10 conecutive hours off. Say I get off the evening job at 9:00pm and have to drive at 4:30am morning job. Wouldn't this run into DOT restrictions?
    Yes. You must show each carrier the time you worked for the other carrier as line 4 time pursuant to the 395.2 definitions which would restrict your driving availability for both carriers.

    Here's the definition:

    TITLE 49
    TRANSPORTATION CHAPTER III
    FEDERAL MOTOR CARRIER SAFETY ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
    PART 395
    HOURS OF SERVICE OF DRIVERS
    Table of Contents
    Sec. 395.2 Definitions.
    As used in this part, the following words and terms are construed to mean:

    On duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On duty time shall include: (1) All time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, waiting to be dispatched, unless the driver has been relieved from duty by the motor carrier; (2) All time inspecting, servicing, or conditioning any commercial motor vehicle at any time; (3) All driving time as defined in the term driving time; (4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth; (5) All time loading or unloading a commercial motor vehicle, supervising, or assisting in the loading or unloading, attending a commercial motor vehicle being loaded or unloaded, remaining in readiness to operate the commercial motor vehicle, or in giving or receiving receipts for shipments loaded or unloaded; (6) All time repairing, obtaining assistance, or remaining in attendance upon a disabled commercial motor vehicle; (7) All time spent providing a breath sample or urine specimen, including travel time to and from the collection site, in order to comply with the random, reasonable suspicion, post- accident, or follow-up testing required by part 382 of this subchapter when directed by a motor carrier; ( Performing any other work in the capacity, employ, or service of a motor carrier; and (9) Performing any compensated work for a person who is not a motor carrier.

    Notice the words "a motor carrier". This means any motor carrier.
    Last edited by psanderson; 04.08.2009 at 05.35 PM.

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  11. #10
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    There are many ways to determine falsification of one's record of duty status (RDS) of which this is one. For every way you falsify your RDS I can show you 2 ways to prove it.

    No record of duty status means exactly that......he/she didn't have one, or at least the driver claimed to whatever state enforcement officer that he/she didn't have one. When one claims he/she doesn't have one it usually means that a citation for no RDS is cheaper than all the false log citations and/or hours of service violations. It is a common practice although easily detectable when performing a compliance review (C.R.......what you call an internal audit) when the FMCSA performs the C.R. at the carrier main office at which time the FMCSA could issue the driver and motor carrier federal fines on top of the state fines already paid to the state that found the original violation. These fines can be up to a maximum of $27,500.00 per violation per day.


    I just did some research and discovered I was incorrect. The USDOT as increased their civil penalties under the cost of living increase options of applicable law to a maximum of $32,750.00 per violation, per day, not to mention the criminal penalties for knowingly, and/or willfully, and/or deliberately violating the rules of up to $500,000.00 per violation per day and/or up to 5-years in a federal pen per violation per day.
    Last edited by psanderson; 04.09.2009 at 08.46 AM.

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