Fog & Chicken lights burnt out. - Truckers' Trucking Forum

Toomanybikes · **^ Top** #1 04.08.2009

New here and just introduced myself else where.

Anyway - Just as the tittle says will a burned out fog light, chicken light, or the like cause a ticket from LEO?

Being mechanic I have heard for years 'all lights added have to be operational.' I just have seen no tickets, no codes, or statutes that says so. So I am asking?

Being from Washington state I have been through all their codes pertaining to equipment and cannot find anything pertaining. I assume, but will not say it is so, that other states are the same. I just don't know?

I have skimmed the FMSCA and came across this:
'< 393.23 393.25 >

Subpart B—Lamps, reflective devices and electrical wiring
Question 1: Must additional lamps that are not required be operative if all required lamps are operative?

Guidance: No.'

I presented what I say here to a trucking enforcement officer in CDL class today and he went on overload!

What say you?

Biscuit75 · **^ Top** #2 04.08.2009

From my own experience.... I have had a couple times where I was "inspected" and had the chicken lights out. All I got for those was a verbal warning saying I should get them working if they are on the truck. As for the written warnings or tickets, I only ever got them for the headlights, factory turn signals, cab marker lights, and stop/tail/turn lights on the back. Same for the trailer.

dieselbear · **^ Top** #3 04.08.2009

Try 393.9 see what it says. I only write warnings or cites for what is required, ID lights, clearance lights, turn signal, brake lights, side marker lights and tail lights. 393.25 deals with stop lights.

Toomanybikes · **^ Top** #4 04.08.2009

Thanks dieselbear,

You don't know how much I appreciate someone who is or has been in law enforcement answer this. I have read some of your posts before and I appreciate your prospective on a trucking website. You demonstrates the 'us and them attitude sometimes' is not always the case in law enforcement. I am not stroking you a bit.

"< 393.7 393.11 >

Subpart B—Lamps, reflective devices and electrical wiring
§393.9 Lamps operable, prohibition of obstructions of lamps and reflectors.
(a) All lamps required by this subpart shall be capable of being operated at all times. This paragraph shall not be construed to require that any auxiliary or additional lamp be capable of operating at all times."

If I am reeding this right, this confirms the FMCSA guidance that I quoted in the first post. Thus, this officer, my CDL instructor, and every driver that said to me, as a mechanic, "you fix my chicken lights or pay my ticket" #### is wrong.

Am I right or am I missing something?

Toomanybikes · **^ Top** #5 04.08.2009

Thank you to Biscut75 for quick answer.

The 'verbal warning' seems to be extraordinarily common for these lights. That being the case, no tickets or no code, makes me wonder if it more truthiness rather than fact.

Rat · **^ Top** #6 04.09.2009

I have been inspected a few times and two times I failed an inspection for a added on light that did not work or was burnt out. Even though I did not get a ticket I did not get the paper saying I passed inspection which ment I did not recieve an inspection bonus for the company. Many companies give money to a driver that passes a dot inspection. Depending on the level of the inspection it can be anywere from 25.00 to 75.00.

Either fix the burnt out light or take it off all together.

psanderson · **^ Top** #7 04.09.2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toomanybikes

New here and just introduced myself else where.

Anyway - Just as the tittle says will a burned out fog light, chicken light, or the like cause a ticket from LEO?

Being mechanic I have heard for years 'all lights added have to be operational.' I just have seen no tickets, no codes, or statutes that says so. So I am asking?

Being from Washington state I have been through all their codes pertaining to equipment and cannot find anything pertaining. I assume, but will not say it is so, that other states are the same. I just don't know?

I have skimmed the FMSCA and came across this:
'< 393.23 393.25 >

Subpart B—Lamps, reflective devices and electrical wiring
Question 1: Must additional lamps that are not required be operative if all required lamps are operative?

Guidance: No.'

I presented what I say here to a trucking enforcement officer in CDL class today and he went on overload!

What say you?

This is the federal rule however there are also state rules that say all lamps must be operational.

From a retired federal DOT official

Ducks · **^ Top** #8 04.09.2009

Quote:

Well as a licensed Pennsylvania State Inspection Mechanic, I can 100% guarantee you that every light that is on a motor vehicle must work. And any of that funny stuff like blue markers is illegal.

Not only that, But in Pa chicken lights are illegal.

(h) Ornamental Lamps - A lamp not enumerated
in this section, and not located as described in
Tables III-V of this chapter, is prohibited
unless it is available as original equipment. An
illuminated sign is prohibited except on
taxicabs, ambulances and trucks. Flashing or
revolving lights are not ornamental lamps.
Provisions relating to flashing or revolving
lights are in Chapters 15 and 173 (relating to
authorized vehicles and special operating
privileges; and flashing or revolving lights on
emergency and authorized vehicles).

Table III
[LINK POSTED BY MEMBER] Only Members Can View This Truck Forum Link.

I took the above text from an earlier thread on truck lights. The poster mentions that chicken lights are illegal in Pennsylvania. If his interpretation of the law is correct, is it safe for me to assume that trucks registered out of state, but travelling through Pennsylvania, are exempt from this?

Personally, I rarely see a big truck around here with anything other than what I would assume are the standard lights.

WiseOne · **^ Top** #9 04.09.2009

Some of the trucks I used to run had HUNDREDS of chicken lights and, yes, I got a couple tickets when one damned light went out! Best thing now to do is to get LED lights and they rarely go out. A little more expensive, but they are worth it for sure. Especially when the top one would go out...I hated that. BUT, every single light must work on that truck...no matter how many...

Kabar · **^ Top** #10 04.10.2009

Cal law says ALL lites on a veh. must work. Not only do your fog lites have to work. You can leagly run with them on in Cali. Even if there is no fog.

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