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Thread: E-LOGS

  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
    The carriers aren't in the decision loop - Werner got there by rampant log falsification. The NTSB has been advocating this for years after investigating many accidents taking not only the lives of truckers, but the general public as well. They have powerful members of congress in support. Most of the rest of the carriers who have gone this route in the last couple of years did so to ensure that they wouldn't have a problem with compliance in the fatigue basic of CSA.

    I don't remember how Werner got into the elogs. Accidents involving big trucks have been down for the last several years. It was a handful of major carriers who endorsed this bill. It was supposed to have been written by the CEO of Maverick and endorsed by USA Trucking, JB Hunt, Covenant and US Xpress. There could have been one or two others who also endorsed the bill and presented it to Senator Pryor of Arkansas and Senator Alexander of Tennessee. These are the home states of the carriers who endorsed the bill.



    The highways have gotten more crowded with amateur drivers, making them a much more dangerous place. As the margin for error has decreased, the number of truck involved accidents has brought the attention of the general public, attorneys, regulators and congress to bear upon us. Times change.

    EOBR's won't make roads safer. The only thing that will make amateur drivers better is better training and experience. All the EOBR will do is record their time on the road, just as paper logs do today. Accidents involving big trucks have gone down for the last several years, which nullifies their reasoning for wanting to make roads safer. If inexperienced drivers are the cause, then I don't see how having an electronic log in the trucks will help make them safer or have fewer accidents.


    We made our choice a long time ago with creative logging, loose-leaf logbooks and maintaining multiple log books. Its simple... the rest of the driving world has had enough. However, I do agree with you. Small businesses and owner ops who want to go cheap on this should have that choice - the choice of pulling into every weigh station on the roads, and having their log books scrutinized 3 or 4 times a day. Frankly, elogs are great - the bears want nothing to do with a truck equipped with them, leaving more time for them to write YOU up. Much thanks for keeping me out of their sights!

    There is no need to have your logs checked at every weigh station. My guess is that once these are in place you will have more trucks checked who do have elogs. Just because someone has an electronic log doesn't necessarily mean that they are running legally.


    Of course not... this is "a highly regulated industry."

    Be happy this is all they want. I know an attorney who spent a lot of years going after truckers for causing really bad accidents - ie, ones that her employer could make a lot of bucks off of. Her opinion is that there should be a camera staring at you 24/7 with a live hook-up to dispatch, a squawk box to yell at you with, and a way for them to turn the truck off when you nod off.

    It could be worse...
    This industry has too many regulations. Lawyers have made a fortune designing these regulations. Lawyers go after trucks because we are an easy target with high insurance coverage. It usually has less to do with fault and more to do with the amount of coverage. They know that most of the time the insurance company will settle rather than fight a lawsuit. The last figures that I saw concerning accidents and big trucks stated that trucks were only at fault 24% of the time when they were involved with cars. That means that 76% of all accidents involving trucks were the fault of 4 wheelers. I would love for you or anyone who supports the forced installation of EOBR's would change those statistics.

    If you think this is the end all for regulations, this is only the beginning. They could easily push for camera's in the truck to check for fatigue. You see, this will never end as long as the industry goes along with it. They make these rules for "safety" without any proof that it will actually make the roads safer. When it doesn't work then they come up with something else to make the roads "safer." I suppose they need to justify their existance somehow. My suggestion is to "FOLLOW THE MONEY."


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  3. #132
    Road Train Member Prairie Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G/MAN View Post
    Thanks for the info, Prairie Boy. You would still need to buy an IPhone, but it would be cheaper than some of the prices I have heard on some of the EOBR's. I have no idea what an IPhone costs, but I suppose most of the cell phone people would have them. Until the final rule comes down we don't know what criteria we will need to use.
    Fellow at CayCan told me that you could get an iPhone on a 3 year plan for free and just get the DATA package for it at about $12.00 a month.

  4. #133
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    Thanks for the info, Prairie Boy. I would expect that some of the U.S. carriers have a similar program.

  5. #134
    Cantankerous Crusty
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    While I wholeheartedly agree--there are too many regulations and I have absolutely no use for LAWYERS--and they do run the insurance companies and more--and as I have stated emphatically many times B4--this is a regulated industry--BUT as transportaton goes--we are actually the LEAST regulated of the bunch--and yet have some of the strictest policies--
    An airline pilot has much more regulation--and talk about EOBR--they sure are watched--but where we are now required to take a 10 hour break--they are still on an 8--and that includes--transport time to and from airport--eat sleep shower time--now I do not know how many hours(or if)they are allowed in a defined "work week"--who do you think get's more rest--an OTR Driver or a commercial pilot?
    I bring this up--(as only one example--RR's are even sillier)because so many of you(and it is human to do so)seem to be looking for some type of imperical logic in all this--when of course there isn't any!
    So IMHO--stop beating yourselves up over all this--and spend the same energy--on finding the best way--in your individual situation--to maximize your earning potential under the system we are inflicted with--it has been my experience that most of the folks--that stay in this biz for any length of time are a pretty resourceful bunch--and although the gov't seems to be bent on making it more and more difficult to earn a living while maintaining any semblence of a personal life--IMHO--it still can be done--and each individual needs to look for their own creative solutions..
    Just my $.02

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  7. #135
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    I used to think that airline pilots were more regulated than this business, but I am no longer certain. Sometimes it seems that we can't even go to the bathroom without breaking some regulation. I believe that pilots are allowed 8 hours of actual flying time without having to take a break. But, they don't have to log their mileage every time they cross a state line.

  8. #136
    Road Train Member Tazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G/MAN View Post
    It was their decision to put EOBR's in their equipment. Apparently, it has also been their decision for me and tens of thousands of other carriers and hundreds of thousands of owner operators to put them in our trucks.

    We have been keeping paper logs for many decades. This industry has thrived in spite of having paper logs. How have we have gotten along for so many years without elogs?

    The thing with logs is that there are two ways in which logs may be kept. We can do paper logs or elogs. It should be a choice. Both accomplish the same goal of tracking our time.
    The answer is quite simple. Paper logs are by everyone's admission infinetly flexible without exhaustive examination of supporting documents. Many decades ago GPS, Computer, and interface technology made EOBR's unsuitable. Now with advancing technology much like CSA the ability to remove major flaws in RODS that allow rampant violation can be removed.

    You taxes are but a piece of the price you pay. And yes you did and do ask permission. No one forced your authority on you. In fact if you do not file certain documents your permission to operate on public highways is revoked. The exact same way it can be revoked for failing a compliance review.


    EOBR's are a modernizing of RODS to make assessing compliance much simpler, and legitimate. You know people cook the books just as well as I do. It may not be you, I know it is not me, however the people charged with enforcing the regulations on this industry know it as well. They also know a major portion of that will end when EOBR's replace paper and pen.

  9. #137
    Medium Load Member Caterpillar Cowboy's Avatar
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    How will these E Logs affect us say in the local Construction Industry? I heard some rumor this was a 14,000 dollar computer?

  10. #138
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    I didn't ask for permission when I paid for my authority. I also didn't ask for permission when I drove on public highways. I paid my tag tax, fuel tax and other taxes that is included in a gallon of fuel. I have paid for the right to drive on public highways. After all, I helped pay for them. When I pay for something I don't need to get permission. I paid for my authority, insurance, etc. I never asked permission concerning any of them. I have paid for the right to haul freight and to drive on the highway.

  11. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by 307Kenworth View Post
    How will these E Logs affect us say in the local Construction Industry? I heard some rumor this was a 14,000 dollar computer?

    Other than possibly delaying deliveries, it should have little impact. It only affects those who drive otr who are required to use logs. It doesn't affect those who are paid by the hour. They are not saying anything about the cost, but I have heard rumors of from $1,200-3,600 per truck.

  12. #140
    Road Train Member Tazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G/MAN View Post
    I didn't ask for permission when I paid for my authority. I also didn't ask for permission when I drove on public highways. I paid my tag tax, fuel tax and other taxes that is included in a gallon of fuel. I have paid for the right to drive on public highways. After all, I helped pay for them. When I pay for something I don't need to get permission. I paid for my authority, insurance, etc. I never asked permission concerning any of them. I have paid for the right to haul freight and to drive on the highway.

    You filed for your authority yes? You asked the government to register you as a common carrier yes?

    Yeah you pay road taxes. So does every vehicle on the road. You still must request to be registered and authorized yearly to be out here, and that permission is conditional on your following certain laws. EOBR's are easier to enforce some of those laws.

    You do not have to have one. You can choose to not register your vehicle as a common carrier( read quit asking permission to operate) place not for hire on the doors and tootle all over the super slab to your hearts content. But the second you ask (by filing for authority) to operate a business out here, you agree to abide the laws and decisions made concerning this industry. That is why your permission is conditional.

    All they are doing is changing the method for ensuring compliance to maintain that permission. It will be the cost of operating your business on a public road same as annual's, physical's, Fire extinguisher's, flares, triangles, log books(for now).......

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