Cummins NHC 250 with dead cylinder...need some experts on the old engines

Discussion in 'Trucks [ Eighteen Wheelers ]' started by albertaphil, Apr 9, 2010.

  1. albertaphil

    albertaphil Bobtail Member

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    Mar 31, 2010
    Calgary, Alberta
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    Hello everyone, I've been asking questions about the engine on my '69 White already, but I thought that I should start a new thread now that I've gotten into the engine a bit.

    The truck hadn't run in almost 2 years. the engine is a Cummins NHC 250.

    I was driving the truck home from where I purchased it, when, at the top of the first long hill, I lost power, the engine developed a miss, and the blowby coming out the crankcase breather increased drastically. I drove the truck home the last 30 miles and the problem did not get any worse.

    There are no strange mechanical noises coming from the engine...just a dead miss on #1 cylinder as verified by an infrared thermometer on the exhaust manifold. One cylinder was weak before the miss developed...I could hear the unevenness when the engine was cranking over.

    The blowby out the crankcase breather is a steady stream, not a "puff puff"

    I pulled the valve cover and jake off the first head, and everything looks normal. All the pushrods are straight and in place. All rocker arms and valve springs are intact. The injector hold-down plate and bolts are intact and in place. With the engine running there is a "puff puff" out the head somewhere...it is difficult to tell where, but it seemed more like it was coming out of the pushrod gallery than out the injector.

    Is it possible for that much compression to escape from an injector that is in place?

    Is there anything that I SHOULD NOT do when it comes to removing cylinder head. Are there any tricks I should know?

    Thanks for your help and experience.

    Cheers,
    Phil
     
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  3. old-six-pack

    old-six-pack Heavy Load Member

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    Oct 24, 2007
    vernon hill, va
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    old cummins famous for head gaskets and broken head bolts:biggrin_25523:
     
  4. Longhood379

    Longhood379 Medium Load Member

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    Nov 30, 2009
    Cremona AB
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    Phil there is a cummins Guru right close to you ,I will E mail you some info
    My E mail isn't working right now will try later
     
  5. stranger

    stranger Road Train Member

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    Oct 10, 2006
    NC
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    True on that. Usually a broken head bolt will cause a chirping sound when the engine is under a load, and compression in the radiator.

    If the injector hold down bolts were tight, I doubt your problem is there. You can have that head off in less that an hour. I would leave the exhaust manifold attached to the other heads, remove the intake, and pop the head out. A lot quicker that way, and less chance for bolt breakage.

    I wish I was there to help. I would love to get my hands on another 250 again. I once put a piston in my 250 while the truck was sitting in the emergency lane off I-85 many years ago.
     
  6. albertaphil

    albertaphil Bobtail Member

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    Mar 31, 2010
    Calgary, Alberta
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    So I'm assuming that I should order a set of head bolts, too. I once had a VW diesel back together after a ring job, doing the final torquing on the last head bolt and "snap". Off came the head, a $100 gasket, and new bolts later...
     
  7. stranger

    stranger Road Train Member

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    Oct 10, 2006
    NC
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    No need for new head bolts unless one is already broke. They ocasionally snap while driving, especially if the fuel has been turned up.
     
  8. albertaphil

    albertaphil Bobtail Member

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    Mar 31, 2010
    Calgary, Alberta
    0
    Hi everyone, I got into my old cummins, and this is what I found.

    Piston #1 shows signs of foreign object damage, and it is also severely eroded. It is sloppy in the bore, and one place on the edge is eroded right down to the piston rings. The cylinder is not scored, but there is some melted aluminum from the piston stuck to the wall which chips off easily enough.

    Piston #2 is tight in the bore and not eroded, but it does show damage from (I guess) foreign objects.

    The cylinder head is undamaged and clean...everything looks great. So the question is this...what caused the erosion on piston #1.

    The oil bath air filter had no oil in it, so the engine likely spent many hours ingesting something. I can't think that it ate too much dust, as the cylinders are not scored, and the bearings seem to be in good condition judging by the oil pressure. But the marks on the pistons cannot really be from anything but sticks or leaves or something that was hard enough to mark the pistons but not hard enough to mark the cylinder head.

    Could a bad injector cause the overheating and erosion on piston #1, or did it just eat more stuff because it was at the end of the intake manifold and would have gotten more of the objects in the intake stream than piston #2. Of course, by that logic piston #6 should be the worst because the main intake air pipe from the air cleaner joins onto the manifold about over cylinder #5, so those two holes should have gotten more FOD than the ones at the front.

    What have y'all seen. Thanks for the info.

    Cheers,
    Phil
     

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  9. stranger

    stranger Road Train Member

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    I would have the injectors checked for wrong spray pattern, and have someone dial in the cam followers. It also could be the pump is turned up too much. Whatever it is, this will happen if the problem is not found. I know from experience.

    The 250 that I rebuilt on the side of the road had a piston similar to that. It would burn a piston every 5-6k miles.
     
  10. ironeagle2006

    ironeagle2006 Road Train Member

    Classic case of WAY TO MUCH FUEL NOT ENOUGH AIR and a CLOGGED INJECTOR TIP Nozzle. If your going to run it Stock replace the Pump new Pistons in 1 and 2 and reman fuel Injectors in all 6 holes. With it sitting for 2 years you had some sludged fuel and it clogged the tip up. Also check the Oil Sprayer in the bottom end see if it is clear. If so replace the parts listed and have fun.
     
  11. Brickhauler

    Brickhauler Medium Load Member

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    Oct 1, 2008
    Elizabeth CO
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    My guess is those foreign objects you see stuck in the piston are little broken parts of the rings. Maybe a little too much starting fluid at some point? #1 certainly looks like it got a little hot for sure.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2010
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