Trucking Jobs New Driver Jobs Flatbed Jobs Tanker Jobs Refrigerated Jobs Auto Hauler Jobs
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15
  1. #1
    Light Load Member Deezl Smoke's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Hillsboro Oregon
    Trucker?
    No
    Posts
    168
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked: 51 Times

    Eaton power divider elimination?

    Hi all.

    Please try to bare with me as I attempt to explain what and why I wish to do.

    I have this 94' Pete 377 with 1.5 million on it.


    I have retired it from service at 1.5 million and will be using it as a non commercial "T" plated extra heavy pickup.

    It has Eaton rears with a power divider, which I wish to eliminate for weight, fuel and service reasons.

    There are of course several options like removing the axle and suspension or removing the axle and installing a tag. These are all good, but I want to try something that will be virtually costless.

    What I wish to attempt, if the techs here say it can be done, is to permanently engage the divider, likely by some form of mechanical joining, then remove all the gearing and carrier inside. I will pull the axle shafts and plug the housing and cap the hubs. Possibly even going to a grease packed wheel bearing instead of the gear oil.
    If I mechanically join the divider diff and grease pack those bearings, I am hoping to not have to buy any new drivelines or carrier bearings. The only potential issue I have found so far is that once the pd is eliminated, 100% of the power is now going through the interaxle driveline which is somewhat strength compromised with the angle is runs at. However, I will only have a 12' flatbed on the back and my maximum gross that I am registered to is 26,000. So the torque needed to propel the truck is far less than half that needed to propel it at 80,000 plus.

    The "why" for this, is that I wish to attempt to tow the rig occasionally with my other Pete that I am converting to a motorhome. If I leave the non powered "tag" axle down and raise the powered axle, I will not have all the drivetrain spinning when in tow, but I will still have all my brakes as they will plumbed to the tow vehicle just like a truck'n trailer system.



    Can I eliminate the power divider in this way?

    Thanks.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -dsc00862-jpg  

  2. #2
    Super Crusty
    Member Since
    Jan 2010
    Trucker?
    No Answer
    Posts
    2,874
    Thanks
    309
    Thanked: 1,917 Times

    rears

    Quote Originally Posted by Deezl Smoke View Post
    Hi all.

    Please try to bare with me as I attempt to explain what and why I wish to do.

    I have this 94' Pete 377 with 1.5 million on it.


    I have retired it from service at 1.5 million and will be using it as a non commercial "T" plated extra heavy pickup.

    It has Eaton rears with a power divider, which I wish to eliminate for weight, fuel and service reasons.

    There are of course several options like removing the axle and suspension or removing the axle and installing a tag. These are all good, but I want to try something that will be virtually costless.

    What I wish to attempt, if the techs here say it can be done, is to permanently engage the divider, likely by some form of mechanical joining, then remove all the gearing and carrier inside. I will pull the axle shafts and plug the housing and cap the hubs. Possibly even going to a grease packed wheel bearing instead of the gear oil.
    If I mechanically join the divider diff and grease pack those bearings, I am hoping to not have to buy any new drivelines or carrier bearings. The only potential issue I have found so far is that once the pd is eliminated, 100% of the power is now going through the interaxle driveline which is somewhat strength compromised with the angle is runs at. However, I will only have a 12' flatbed on the back and my maximum gross that I am registered to is 26,000. So the torque needed to propel the truck is far less than half that needed to propel it at 80,000 plus.

    The "why" for this, is that I wish to attempt to tow the rig occasionally with my other Pete that I am converting to a motorhome. If I leave the non powered "tag" axle down and raise the powered axle, I will not have all the drivetrain spinning when in tow, but I will still have all my brakes as they will plumbed to the tow vehicle just like a truck'n trailer system.

    Can I eliminate the power divider in this way?

    Thanks.
    i dont think it will work the power divider isnt ment to run all the time even like your wanting to do the only way i see is to swap the front suspension housing and all with the rear take the power divider chunk out plate up the opening fill with enough grease to still lube the wheel bearings. also plate the hubs when you take the axles out. sell the power divider rear to pay for the work.

  3. #3
    Medium Load Member
    Member Since
    Jan 2010
    Location
    camden ny
    Trucker?
    19 Years
    Posts
    456
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked: 104 Times
    Quote Originally Posted by Deezl Smoke View Post
    Hi all.

    Please try to bare with me as I attempt to explain what and why I wish to do.

    I have this 94' Pete 377 with 1.5 million on it.


    I have retired it from service at 1.5 million and will be using it as a non commercial "T" plated extra heavy pickup.

    It has Eaton rears with a power divider, which I wish to eliminate for weight, fuel and service reasons.

    There are of course several options like removing the axle and suspension or removing the axle and installing a tag. These are all good, but I want to try something that will be virtually costless.

    What I wish to attempt, if the techs here say it can be done, is to permanently engage the divider, likely by some form of mechanical joining, then remove all the gearing and carrier inside. I will pull the axle shafts and plug the housing and cap the hubs. Possibly even going to a grease packed wheel bearing instead of the gear oil.
    If I mechanically join the divider diff and grease pack those bearings, I am hoping to not have to buy any new drivelines or carrier bearings. The only potential issue I have found so far is that once the pd is eliminated, 100% of the power is now going through the interaxle driveline which is somewhat strength compromised with the angle is runs at. However, I will only have a 12' flatbed on the back and my maximum gross that I am registered to is 26,000. So the torque needed to propel the truck is far less than half that needed to propel it at 80,000 plus.

    The "why" for this, is that I wish to attempt to tow the rig occasionally with my other Pete that I am converting to a motorhome. If I leave the non powered "tag" axle down and raise the powered axle, I will not have all the drivetrain spinning when in tow, but I will still have all my brakes as they will plumbed to the tow vehicle just like a truck'n trailer system.

    Can I eliminate the power divider in this way?

    Thanks.
    I think getting a lift axle to replace the front drive axle is the way to go. I know it's going to cost money but your other options I feel will have more problems than they are worth.
    I think eliminating the power divider and second drive axle for fuel milage will be a waist of time and effort. The difference in fuel mileage will be very minimal. Especially in a truck that wont see the long miles any more.
    Option 2. Removing the gears, carrier, and axles from the front rear and permanently locking the power divider. It wont work. The power divider and front rear share gear oil. Just because they have their own fill plugs dont mean their separate. If you put oil in the power divider fill plug it actually goes all the way down in the rear end. The power divider dose have a small resivore but dose share oil with the rear end.The rear end and power divider are lubed one of two ways. Either they have a pump or buy splash from the ring gear. The power divider will still need this oil even with every thing removed but wont be able to receive it. Also I dont believe you can just replace the gear oil that lubricates the wheel bearings with grease. I dont see how you could just install a grease fitting some place and properly get the grease to the bearing.
    Option 3. Swap the rear rear center section to the front to become the only drive axle and plate off the rear rear. Again I'm not to sure about the grease in the wheel bearing that were designed for gear oil. Even if it would work and the bearing survive I think their is another problem. As soon as you drive over uneven ground like when you would start up a hill all your weight would unload to the rear most axle that is now a dead axle. This will remove all weight off the front rear axle that is driving and you will spin out. I think this will happen a lot more than you think. With the rear rear driving and the front a lift axle you can just lift the axle and all the weight will be on your drive axle.
    I think you going through a lot of effort and most likely cost just to try to save a small amount of fuel. If you were running 100,000= miles a year you might notice the fuel savings but not with what you will be doing with it now. As far as service how much service dose it realy take. I think I would just remove the front drive axle and make it a 6 wheeler. That will be your most fuel efficient and cost effective way to go. Your only cost will be a new longer drive shaft and possibly install a carrier bearing.
    As far as towing pull the axles thats the cheepest way.

  4. #4
    Super Crusty
    Member Since
    Jan 2010
    Trucker?
    No Answer
    Posts
    2,874
    Thanks
    309
    Thanked: 1,917 Times

    swap

    Quote Originally Posted by melpromud View Post
    I think getting a lift axle to replace the front drive axle is the way to go. I know it's going to cost money but your other options I feel will have more problems than they are worth.
    I think eliminating the power divider and second drive axle for fuel milage will be a waist of time and effort. The difference in fuel mileage will be very minimal. Especially in a truck that wont see the long miles any more.
    Option 2. Removing the gears, carrier, and axles from the front rear and permanently locking the power divider. It wont work. The power divider and front rear share gear oil. Just because they have their own fill plugs dont mean their separate. If you put oil in the power divider fill plug it actually goes all the way down in the rear end. The power divider dose have a small resivore but dose share oil with the rear end.The rear end and power divider are lubed one of two ways. Either they have a pump or buy splash from the ring gear. The power divider will still need this oil even with every thing removed but wont be able to receive it. Also I dont believe you can just replace the gear oil that lubricates the wheel bearings with grease. I dont see how you could just install a grease fitting some place and properly get the grease to the bearing.
    Option 3. Swap the rear rear center section to the front to become the only drive axle and plate off the rear rear. Again I'm not to sure about the grease in the wheel bearing that were designed for gear oil. Even if it would work and the bearing survive I think their is another problem. As soon as you drive over uneven ground like when you would start up a hill all your weight would unload to the rear most axle that is now a dead axle. This will remove all weight off the front rear axle that is driving and you will spin out. I think this will happen a lot more than you think. With the rear rear driving and the front a lift axle you can just lift the axle and all the weight will be on your drive axle.
    I think you going through a lot of effort and most likely cost just to try to save a small amount of fuel. If you were running 100,000= miles a year you might notice the fuel savings but not with what you will be doing with it now. As far as service how much service dose it realy take. I think I would just remove the front drive axle and make it a 6 wheeler. That will be your most fuel efficient and cost effective way to go. Your only cost will be a new longer drive shaft and possibly install a carrier bearing.
    As far as towing pull the axles thats the cheepest way.
    i agree with you what i posted was a cheap alternative if he was going to do it. the easist way just leave it the way it is and drive it.

  5. #5
    Light Load Member
    Member Since
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Seattle to Jacksonville in 3 days days!
    Trucker?
    0-1 Year
    Posts
    191
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked: 37 Times
    why not remove the front axle, and replace it with the rear, and bob it?

  6. #6
    Light Load Member Deezl Smoke's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Hillsboro Oregon
    Trucker?
    No
    Posts
    168
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked: 51 Times
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeepintrucker View Post
    why not remove the front axle, and replace it with the rear, and bob it?
    I'd like to keep 2 axles for driving around, and lift the drive axle when towing it to reduce wear and tear. I can swap rear driver for the front and tag the rear, that would work fine and may be the way to go. I was just hoping to shorten the wb for towing since the tow vehicle will be so long.

    melpromud
    The difference in fuel mileage will be very minimal. Especially in a truck that wont see the long miles any more.
    That's just it. The fuel mileage should increase more so since it will also be retired from the heavy loads. Because it will essentially be bobtailing all the time now, the weight of all the gears in a drive axle will make more of a difference. I just removed the inside duals last night and set the bed on it this evening. I will have a couple pics tomorrow.


    Basically I know how the power divider works and all that. I was just hoping to find someone that might be able to condone my thoughts on lubrication for the input and output shaft bearings without the pump, or to point out that it can not be done because.......... If I spool the divider diff, I will basically have a ready made carrier bearing.

  7. #7
    Road Train Member Krooser's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Trucker?
    40 Years
    Age
    66
    Posts
    2,494
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked: 1,006 Times
    During normal operation all the power goes to the rear drive wheels. The ONLY time the front wheels get power is when the power divider is engaged.

    It works like this... look at the driveshaft coming from the transmission... notice how high it is in the housing? That's because it goes straight thru the front axle housing and drives the rear wheels only.

    Now there are two gears in the front diff... they are helical cut and one is on that thru shaft I just mentioned... the other is on the front diff's pinion gear. On that same thru shaft there is a sliding clutch that connects the thru shaft to those two helical gears to engage the front diff to the driveshaft. When you hit the PD switch an air solenoid pushes a lever which engages that sliding clutch and puts power to the front diff.

    In order to do what you want to do you would simply have to 'cap off' the hubs after removing the front axle shafts... then remove the ring and pinion and the carrier... the power will simply go straight thru and drive the rear wheels.

    How do I know this? I had TWO front differential failures within one week in January... I had an up close and personal look at how they work... and have $5,000.00 in receipts to show for i!

  8. #8
    Light Load Member Deezl Smoke's Avatar
    Member Since
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Hillsboro Oregon
    Trucker?
    No
    Posts
    168
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked: 51 Times
    Quote Originally Posted by Krooser View Post
    During normal operation all the power goes to the rear drive wheels. The ONLY time the front wheels get power is when the power divider is engaged.

    It works like this... look at the driveshaft coming from the transmission... notice how high it is in the housing? That's because it goes straight thru the front axle housing and drives the rear wheels only.

    Now there are two gears in the front diff... they are helical cut and one is on that thru shaft I just mentioned... the other is on the front diff's pinion gear. On that same thru shaft there is a sliding clutch that connects the thru shaft to those two helical gears to engage the front diff to the driveshaft. When you hit the PD switch an air solenoid pushes a lever which engages that sliding clutch and puts power to the front diff.

    In order to do what you want to do you would simply have to 'cap off' the hubs after removing the front axle shafts... then remove the ring and pinion and the carrier... the power will simply go straight thru and drive the rear wheels.

    How do I know this? I had TWO front differential failures within one week in January... I had an up close and personal look at how they work... and have $5,000.00 in receipts to show for i!
    Krooser, what brand axles are you running?

    I have Eatons. Here's a link to a publication that you might be interested in. In particular, pages 8-12. And most important, page 11.
    http://www2.dana.com/pdf/AXSM-0041.pdf

    Note the "inter-axle differential assembly". This is the part that I would like to pin or spool.

    If you you have a straight through shaft brand axle, I would be interested in knowing what brand or model. Perhaps I can buy a through shaft from parts?

  9. #9
    Medium Load Member
    Member Since
    Jan 2010
    Location
    camden ny
    Trucker?
    19 Years
    Posts
    456
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked: 104 Times
    Quote Originally Posted by Krooser View Post
    During normal operation all the power goes to the rear drive wheels. The ONLY time the front wheels get power is when the power divider is engaged.

    It works like this... look at the driveshaft coming from the transmission... notice how high it is in the housing? That's because it goes straight thru the front axle housing and drives the rear wheels only.

    Now there are two gears in the front diff... they are helical cut and one is on that thru shaft I just mentioned... the other is on the front diff's pinion gear. On that same thru shaft there is a sliding clutch that connects the thru shaft to those two helical gears to engage the front diff to the driveshaft. When you hit the PD switch an air solenoid pushes a lever which engages that sliding clutch and puts power to the front diff.

    In order to do what you want to do you would simply have to 'cap off' the hubs after removing the front axle shafts... then remove the ring and pinion and the carrier... the power will simply go straight thru and drive the rear wheels.

    How do I know this? I had TWO front differential failures within one week in January... I had an up close and personal look at how they work... and have $5,000.00 in receipts to show for i!
    Im sorry but you are very very wrong on all the power going to the rear rear unless the power divider is locked. It dose not go straight thru to the rear rear on any tandem axle truck. The power divider is a differential and as long as their is no spinning (sliping) wheels all 4 corners get equal power all the time. If you remove the axle and cap them off on the front drive axle the truck wont move unless the power divider is locked. It would send all power to the front rear because it would be the point of least resistance with no axles. Thats what a differential dose. It sends power to the point of least resistancedurring a spin out. All tandem axle trucks send power to all 4 corners equally untill a spin out happens then the power will go to the corner with least resistance. It can be front or rear, left or right. Once the power divider is locked then both front and rear drive axles get equal power but can and will drive only one axle on each axle assembly durring a spin out. If your stuck with it unlocked you only have one wheel drive. With it locked you get two wheels spinning. One will be on the front rear, one will be on the rear rear. It can be both right, both left, or one of each wich ever has the least restance.

  10. #10
    Road Train Member Krooser's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Trucker?
    40 Years
    Age
    66
    Posts
    2,494
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked: 1,006 Times
    Looking at the Eaton link from Deezl Smoke I see how the power does go to the front diff... the guys who did the rebuild obviously did a poor job of explaining the functions of the sliding clutch deal that locks out the diff function.

    I stand corrected on that....

    But I'm sure there's still a way for the front diff to be gutted to only use the rear diff for power. I'd put the rear diff and housing in the front and run a dead axle in the rear... but that's me

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •