Doing detroit bull gear, a few questions

Discussion in 'Trucks [ Eighteen Wheelers ]' started by allan5oh, Jun 21, 2013.

  1. allan5oh

    allan5oh Road Train Member

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    I have everything stripped off the engine, including the rear gear case. A few questions before assembly:

    1) Should I replace the cam thrust plate? Is there a way to test it, the book seems vague and I don't understand the procedure. Can I re-use the hub, key, and gear? I know to replace the bolt.

    2) Adjustable idler race looks like ####, there's a couple cracks in it. Any tricks to this? Same procedure as most races? I will probably just cut it out (make two cuts at an angle), then freeze the new one and warm up the gear so it slides right in. New spacer as well. Any tricks to setting it up?

    3) What's the best way to seal up the gear cases? Book recommends "international sealant #2". I DO NOT want this ####### to leak, how should I prepare it? Block sand it a bit with some brake kleen? What sealant should I use?

    4) How essential is it to check lash on the non-adjustable gears?

    6) Are there any other bolts other than cam gear drive bolt that shouldn't be reused?

    7) Should I do the ole shade tree mechanic trick of advancing the cam one tooth? Some swear by it, others say it will blow the engine.

    8) If rife gives me remons, does that make me chinese?
     
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  3. blanco

    blanco Road Train Member

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    You need to be bullish for this job
     
  4. GrapeApe

    GrapeApe Road Train Member

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    1. If camshaft end-play is in spec, you can reuse the thrust plate. If not, replace it.

    2. The adjustable idler gear rides on a bushing, it is not serviceable, you have the change the gear.

    3. I do not like Detroit's #2 sealer, it eventually hardens and leaks. I have never had an issue using high temp permatex. Prep is the most important thing, you have to get all the old sealer off. Roloc wheels are best, but not too coarse, you don't want to grind any metal off. Then clean & dry with brake cleaner. You only need a small bead of sealer, remember that any amount that squeezes out, you'll have the same amount squeezing in. You don't want strings of sealer breaking off inside the engine and clogging things up.

    4. Check them. A bull gear is not cheap, find any problems now.

    5. You forgot #5.

    6. I replace the 2 (or 3 for newer engines) bolts for the thrust plate. Just for peace of mind, they can cause a real mess if they break off. I also use just a dab of lock tight on those bolts.

    7. No, time it correctly.
     
    BigJls1 Thanks this.
  5. allan5oh

    allan5oh Road Train Member

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    Well it all seemed to go together pretty good, checked the lash on the bull gear it seems fine. But then I look at the instructions on how to set the adjustable gear lash and cam gear lash, and I just want to smash my head against a wall. Even if I had the tool they call for (I do have a dial indicator) I still wouldn't understand the instructions very well. I find the Detroit manual to be overall poorly written, you have to jump around so much. It seems like they add way too much instructions, constantly repeating. It would also be nice if the instructions were separated into EGR and pre-EGR instead of mixing everything together.

    Are there any tricks to setting the adjustable gear? Do you need the Detroit tool?
     
  6. Bush chook

    Bush chook Light Load Member

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    If the gear case cover is on you can make your own threaded pin for the cam gear and using a mag base indicator check lash minimum 0.002" at pin ( which is 0.004" at gear tooth ) . If gear cover is off set lash at cam gear tooth at 0.004" minimum and check at 90 degree intervals
     
  7. allan5oh

    allan5oh Road Train Member

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    But I still have to jam the adjustable gear correct? It's also not very easy getting the dial indicator on either gear, maybe I'll put the magnetic base on the gear and get the reading from somewhere else.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2013
  8. allan5oh

    allan5oh Road Train Member

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    Went out to the truck and had a look, I understand what you said. Just a matter of finding a bolt that will fit. I don't have to check adjustable idler to bullgeat correct?
     
  9. Gear head

    Gear head Medium Load Member

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    You will need the tool for installing the front crank seal, no way around it.
     
  10. allan5oh

    allan5oh Road Train Member

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    I kinda figured as much, looking at a few other things it looks like I need a few other tools as well.
     
  11. allan5oh

    allan5oh Road Train Member

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    None of the local detroit dealers would let me borrow their front seal installer, so I rigged up my own. Took a race and the pulley managed to get it 60% of the way on, and for the rest I took a main bearing and spread it out a bit and gently tapped that ####### in. Hopefully that does the trick. Spent a lot of time making sure it was dead straight. I'm finally feeling better after 3.5 weeks of illness, so I'm starting to put in good hours. Oil pan, rocker cover, and rad should be going in tomorrow and hopefully fire the beast up Friday. I also did a bearing roll and the two oil pressure valves plus the oil pump. I haven't had a reading outside of .0025-.0035 on the plastigage which is fantastic. I'm pretty happy with that. I also found for the cam drive gear lash that using a tap works fantastic. I got .003" on the gauge in four spots, so that should be .006" actual. Can't wait to test this thing out. Also did the damper from pittsburgh power, and a balancer. Rebel also did a tune, it was a bit of a turd with the 171702 turbo and freightliner put in the latest low nox tune last summer before selling me the truck.

    One quick question, what's the best way to prime the oil system? I was thinking of warming up the pan and block heater to help the flow, and cranking it with two batteries and ECM fuses pulled until I get pressure. The truck has a mechanical gauge, so that helps.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2013
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