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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by PackRatTDI View Post
    Yeah but by the time you've spent that money on a retrofit, you've pretty much blown a down payment on a truck. And the DPF systems are already troublesome on trucks that were DESIGNED for them, I can't imagine how bad it will be adding one to a truck that was never designed for one to begin with.

    Honestly, unless you survive on California inbound and outbound freight, I wouldn't bother spending that cash on a retrofit.
    That is true for right now. The big word here is the municipalities complying with federal air pollution laws. Washington state will be requiring this for going into the ports. And I bet within 5 years all of the ports will also. Then any state that has a smog problem will start looking at this also. California has always been the smog control leaders in the country. And here we can watch it grow from here. They see smoke from a truck and think that stopping it. It will solve everything. Funny thing .. Out of 100 cars, 1 is trying to pollute with a bad tune up. And out of that 1 percent of trying to pollute, 1 out of 100 so 1/100th of a percent are the true polluters, burning oil..and putting pollution into the air. Then we can talk about the pollution coming off the eucalyptus trees . But nooo those truckers are doing it all . Think of this one.. Back in the 70s and 80s we were burning a hole in the ozone, they said that ammonia was a gas that was doing it.. So they outlawed all ammonia refridgeration ,along with freon. And just what is eurea? It's frickin AMMONIA, that is now alright to burn , the hell with the ozone hole, but we have pure exhaust coming from Diesel engines. Then it's well they have been using it for years in Europe. Funny thing.. We can't talk about this one.. But the air has weird chemicals in the air in Europe from ... From .... Burning eurea. And some mountainous areas with trees along the freeways hear aren't doing real well here.


  2. #72
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    Now if you don't want to retrofit your older engines, I sure wouldn't as you loose power and fuel economy. So you bring that load to a city near the border to California.. And drop it off. The I will come pick it up with my California compliant truck take it in to California... And charge them about 6 bucks or better a mile to do it. They want this.. Then it is time that they pay for it. Even the container haulers are trying to start a green fee on all loads that they haul. So far since 1999 just for pollution control devices have been over 30,000 per truck. It is time that the regulations that the people want start to pay for them.

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  4. #73
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    Attachment 56745


    Only thing rough about this O'l cabover was it did'nt have power steering, but other than that it was a good ride. 400hp-855 / 12513 trans. As I said in an ealier post I had no problem getting dressed, or anything else. Actually miss her.

  5. #74
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    Having trouble with the dang pics.....

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  7. #75
    Medium Load Member kachup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdreef View Post
    See this is what happens when one ASSUMES. First have you ever heard of metal fatigue ? Corrosion? Electrolysis ? But guess not. Is your post the reason why most companies want a truck no more than a certain age? but that's what comes from one assuming , and thinking my post was an ignorant post. Is all a true fact . So who is standing on the short bus now? It is a fact that after the first of the year Any truck not fitted with a particulate trap, or a small fleet without a waiver and a truck older than a 2002 will not be allowed in the state of California. One guy was nailed over 100,000 for not being compliant already. Next Washington state will have same laws for the ports as California did. Opps this is spreading . And I bet within a year or two that every east coast port will have the same requirements. Then how will that old truck run with one of those retrofit filters? There goes all of that saving. Then let's talk about CVSA inspections.. Who gets pulled in for more inspections? The 90s truck or the truck built in the last 5 years. Why? Because they know that 90 s truck that you talk about is an easy ticket over a newer truck. But guess we can't talk about that. As for shippers. All they want is that load moved. That's the key word here. They want it to show up at the other end.. Not halfway. It is a true fact that everything has a lifespan.. Including a truck.. That is why you never see any OLD trucks on the road any more. And NO I'm not the average Joe. I'm a truck driver, that works on his truck .

    Guy are you serious, Im not even going to waist my time. You are 100% right everyone shouldn't have a truck older than 5 years, they should sell them as rebuilt title if they got more than 500,000 miles. And shipper should request new trucks because even new things "never break". EPA should make federal laws screwing small companies and single owner operator trying to make a living because Hydrocarbon emissions on a diesel engine are much lower than gasoline even on older trucks.

  8. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by kachup View Post
    Guy are you serious, Im not even going to waist my time. You are 100% right everyone shouldn't have a truck older than 5 years, they should sell them as rebuilt title if they got more than 500,000 miles. And shipper should request new trucks because even new things "never break". EPA should make federal laws screwing small companies and single owner operator trying to make a living because Hydrocarbon emissions on a diesel engine are much lower than gasoline even on older trucks.
    One minute you say you aren't going to waste your time then you try to waste others time. It is time for some that haven't moved in to the 21 st century. Do or get off the bus. It's here. The rules and regulations are here. It looks like you just might want to be here. Because it will be a miserable time for you if you aren't. And you may need to take a class in reading.. So you don't try to put works on my posting that aren't there.

  9. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdreef View Post
    We all have seen older trucks until a few years back .. Then they just disappeared. The frames were cracking or just worn out.. Or the smoke . They just couldn't pass smog inspection any more. Those 8v71s were loud, and were a two cycle engine with exhaust valves. And burned fuel.. That's the whole word here fuel. You could run those old engines when fuel was a quarter .. But when fuel was over 2 bucks.. Then you could get a 3406e that had more power than a 3408. And better fuel economy. I used to run with a guy that had a 12 v71. And kept up with him with a E7 400 Mack . The newer engines were getting more miles to an overhaul, and now try to rebuild most older engines with new parts. You can only reman things so many times, until they have just been remaned to many times. For those 3406 A,B,and C engines.. Looking for sleeves you won't just go down to the local cat dealer and get all 6 . They will have to hunt for them. That just happened in Las Vegas a few months ago. And yes those older trucks do bring back memories.. Until you had to drive them all the time.

    And just exactly what is it that wears out on an engine...???? "Moving parts" Cranks, cams, pistons, rods, valves / guides, cylinders, turbo's, blowers, and they all are replaceable are they not?? so what are you talking about wearing out and only being able to reman so many times? Dad retired after 40 yrs with more pewter plaques, certificates, belt buckles, and an all expense paid trip to "GM" in Detroit for being 1 of an estamated 75,000 mechanics tested and placed in the top 10, that being said I'm no brainstorm but I have learned a lot over the years just paying attention and listening, not to mention my personal experience of being on the road since back in 86, so "what are you talking about"? Frames?, Suspension parts?, what is not rebuildable? Granted some things are better just tossed due to time but most small 1 or 2 truck O/O"s try to squeeze everything they can for profit, so they just keep rebuilding unless a block or head cracks, warps, or is destroyed by an internal cast iron shower, I am really trying to learn something here but am a little confused. Most of the younger Drivers / viewers on here would'nt give it a second thought but I am, but I'm also Oldskool, Maybe I'm wrong, sorry if I am.

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  11. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLDSKOOLERnWV View Post
    And just exactly what is it that wears out on an engine...???? "Moving parts" Cranks, cams, pistons, rods, valves / guides, cylinders, turbo's, blowers, and they all are replaceable are they not?? so what are you talking about wearing out and only being able to reman so many times? Dad retired after 40 yrs with more pewter plaques, certificates, belt buckles, and an all expense paid trip to "GM" in Detroit for being 1 of an estamated 75,000 mechanics tested and placed in the top 10, that being said I'm no brainstorm but I have learned a lot over the years just paying attention and listening, not to mention my personal experience of being on the road since back in 86, so "what are you talking about"? Frames?, Suspension parts?, what is not rebuildable? Granted some things are better just tossed due to time but most small 1 or 2 truck O/O"s try to squeeze everything they can for profit, so they just keep rebuilding unless a block or head cracks, warps, or is destroyed by an internal cast iron shower, I am really trying to learn something here but am a little confused. Most of the younger Drivers / viewers on here would'nt give it a second thought but I am, but I'm also Oldskool, Maybe I'm wrong, sorry if I am.
    You can only use remaned parts so many times before they are not able to be remaned anymore. They are just flat out worn out . And most companies aren't making parts for these engines or trucks. It's all about supply and demand.. And demand on a 3406 isn't there any more. And that is getting to be any engine that is about 20 years and older. Or truck. It's all about money. That's nice that your dad has all of these awards.. But what does that have to do about today.. With today's engines. I have seen many changes in engines over the years. Not many have junk yards anymore where you could get a odd part as rebar pays better than keeping that junk. You can only grind so much off a crank shaft or a cam shaft before it is junk, you can only grind heads so many times, until you will have to replace these parts, you can build injectors so many times.. Then you have to replace with others.. But the time is coming where there aren't others.. And no new. Try going down and get a set of injectors for a 3406. Or a set of sleeves . You can still find them but won't be able to get all of your parts from the same vendor. And just when does it become where that engine overhaul is worth more than the truck ? I'm also old school .. But things have changed and one has to adjust to the new, or the bus just won't stop at your busstop any more. Do you have a cell phone? Or a computer? Or fluorescent lighting in the house? Or tubeless tires on your truck? Or synthetic oil in your rears and tranny? Those arent things of yesterday.. Then there are getting pollution requirements.. Sorry but we aren't in Kansas any more.

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  13. #79
    Road Train Member Boardhauler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdreef View Post
    We all have seen older trucks until a few years back .. Then they just disappeared. The frames were cracking or just worn out.. Or the smoke . They just couldn't pass smog inspection any more. Those 8v71s were loud, and were a two cycle engine with exhaust valves. And burned fuel.. That's the whole word here fuel. You could run those old engines when fuel was a quarter .. But when fuel was over 2 bucks.. Then you could get a 3406e that had more power than a 3408. And better fuel economy. I used to run with a guy that had a 12 v71. And kept up with him with a E7 400 Mack . The newer engines were getting more miles to an overhaul, and now try to rebuild most older engines with new parts. You can only reman things so many times, until they have just been remaned to many times. For those 3406 A,B,and C engines.. Looking for sleeves you won't just go down to the local cat dealer and get all 6 . They will have to hunt for them. That just happened in Las Vegas a few months ago. And yes those older trucks do bring back memories.. Until you had to drive them all the time.
    Properly maintained & updated a truck will last almost indefinitely. My last driving job was in a 379 that turned 2 million miles while I was in it. That one got turned in for a smog grant, but its sister truck is still on the road, looking & running great. I recently read that the Air Force is going to keep its B-52's flying until they are 80 years old.

    Any age truck can be retrofitted with a DPF for California. If it was built before 2004 the retrofit will make it compliant until 2021, if it's a 2003-2007 the retrofit will make it legal until 2024. Google Iron Man or FleetServ. I was on the phone with FleetServ this afternoon. If my currently wrecked Freightliner is totalled by the insurance I want to buy 2001 Pete 379 witha C15. They quoted me about 18K for the filter including installation. It doesn't interface with the ecm in any way & will need to be cleaned about once a year. I am convinced that my overall operating costs with this combination will be lower than a new truck with 50+ sensors and all the related compnents to maintain.

    Buying an older truck and improving its condition as you run it is a very intelligent option for anyone with the machanical skills to do it. I wouldn't do it with a mechanical engine, but I would upgrade an older truck with a mechanical engine to an older electronic engine. As far as Caterpillar goes, the 3406 was used for so long in so many different applications that any part for one is availible from a plethora of sources.

    And yes I have lots of experience with old cabovers.


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    Last edited by Boardhauler; 10.31.2013 at 09.12 PM.

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  15. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boardhauler View Post
    Properly maintained & updated a truck will last almost indefinitely. My last driving job was in a 379 that turned 2 million miles while I was in it. That one got turned in for a smog grant, but its sister truck is still on the road, looking & running great. I recently read that the Air Force is going to keep its B-52's flying until they are 80 years old.

    Any age truck can be retrofitted with a DPF for California. If it was built before 2004 the retrofit will make it compliant until 2021, if it's a 2003-2007 the retrofit will make it legal until 2024. Google Iron Man or FleetServ. I was on the phone with FleetServ this afternoon. If my currently wrecked Freightliner is totalled by the insurance I want to buy 2001 Pete 379 witha C15. They quoted me about 18K for the filter including installation. It doesn't interface with the ecm in any way & will need to be cleaned about once a year. I am convinced that my overall operating costs with this combination will be lower than a new truck with 50+ sensors and all the related compnents to maintain.

    Buying an older truck and improving its condition as you run it is a very intelligent option for anyone with the machanical skills to do it. I wouldn't do it with a mechanical engine, but I would upgrade an older truck with a mechanical engine to an older electronic engine. As far as Caterpillar goes, the 3406 was used for so long in so many different applications that any part for one is availible from a plethora of sources.

    And yes I have lots of experience with old cabovers.


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    If anybody has driven more than 30 years.. There's a good chance they have driven a COE.try driving a bubble nose. Or work on them. Those were great trucks. As for that particulate trap.. Before you put on that on your truck. You really may want to investigate it a lot more. First the truck looses power from the restriction and fuel economy, they claim that they need to be cleaned one a year, but many are having to clean them out more often, and ask them where that burned ash goes. And if I remember, no matter what's on it.you really may want to talk to CARB. The only engines California will recognized is a computered engine such as the 3406e. Those you have to put on a particulate trap to be legal until 2024. I know some that are only getting about 200,000 miles to an overhaul those are newer engines already with the particulate trap.but it also has to do with drivers.. But even with a meat in the seat... It's hard to screw up an engine at 200,000. Now with an older truck, you lose out on the tax credits. Will have a cheaper license plate, no payments but you will have repair bills. Every part on the B52s have been replaced.. Wing, parts of fuselage , engines , and get updated with the newest computers and technologies. When was the last time those rails have been replaced? The highway patrol always loves older trucks, as they are more likely to have something wrong on them.. Worn parts, oil leaks, etc. you talk about a smog grant.. So it sounds like your from California. Today you can get 45,000 bucks for a new truck rebate from the state. Like I said one really needs to investigate retrofitting an older truck with a particulate trap. These places just want to sell you these as there is big money. I watched a tv show just last night.. Those traps are full of Platinum .. That's why the cost so much. Also where ever you mount them..when you regen, you have to be on concrete or bare dirt . They get to about 1200 degrees and can start asphalt or weeds on fire. Or any oil that may be on that frame or nearby. Now they are now talking in 2016 having a new type of pollution requirements. They are talking about all of the west coast ports requiring these pollution control devices. And I bet in 5 years or less all of the ports will be if not the states requiring these devices. Now as I said before.. The 3406a,b, and were made for years.. But that was back until 1995 or 1996 when they came out with the E model. Yea a lot of heavy equipment ran them .. But either they were sent overseas or were made into rebar. A few sitting in a junk yard but with the tiers , most can't even use that engine. And they will have well over 100,000 hours on them .. You can only rebuild, remanufacture so many times and the parts are not going to be able to do anything . They just get worn out. Most cat dealers will have a few parts, a friend of mine was putting in a set of new liners. He could get 4 at the cat dealer in Las Vegas and had to get the other 2 from another cat dealer. Think.. It's been about 17 years that the 3406 was used for a truck engine. And if you drive team that milage per year could be over 200,000 miles per year..so17 years. That is 3,400,000 miles in those 17 years on those engine parts. Also those engines were a higher rpm engine which meant even more wear and tear . I don't know your age.. But just like you things get older, and do have a life span. Are you able to do things today that you did at 17,18 , if you are 60 think you can go out and load something like a load of hay that's on the ground, with a set of hooks? It's the same thing with everything. Or break down in some place. Most mechanics don't have the foggiest idea how a manual engine works.. There isn't a computer terminal to plug into.. Most of the old guys that worked on these engines are retired. Or forgot most that they knew. Do I like old trucks.. You betcha.. It brings back memories and many stories.. But it is now the 21 st century.. One needs to think about joining it or it just may leave one behind

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