First 1500 miles with a compressed natural gas truck

Discussion in 'Trucks [ Eighteen Wheelers ]' started by VARITHMS, Sep 6, 2014.

  1. VARITHMS

    VARITHMS Medium Load Member

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    We just got our compressed natural gas trucks. After the first week with them I am impressed. I read a lot of rumors about cng trucks being under powered. Not true. it is not a 600hp engine but does just fine. My first load out of the box was a load of logs with a GVW of 85k lbs and it did well. They do run a little higher in the power band than a diesel. My Cummins N14 would pull well at any rpm above 1000 with the exact same gearing. These start in about 1200 and run really well up to 1800. Ideal seems be 1200-1600. This is comparing a 12l engine to a 14l engine. The truck runs 1350rpm at 65mph and 1580 at 75mph. I set the cruise at 65. Not real sure about the mpg yet. Some of the pumps are set for gas equivalent per gallon and some are set at diesel equivalent per gallon. The cost per mile is running .40-.44 cents per mile vs .58 in my diesel. We are a local company so neither diesel or ng are going to get great mpg. Ours have tanks for 112 gallons. They have tanks much larger but they stick up above the cab. We are in the woods a lot so that would not work for us. Saddle mounted tanks are made by a company called agility. They are crap. Trillogy makes the best fuel system hands down. I went to a class for a week to study different systems and we covered every nut and bolt on the fuel systems.

    Truck Specs:
    Kenworth T800
    isx12 G 400/1450
    eaton/fuller 10 speed .75 tenth ger
    disc brakes
    220 inch (I think)
    3.91 drive axles
    11r22.5

    Pros for the natural gas:
    very quiet, and the Kenworth cab is well insulated
    no lines at the pumps, no jerks blocking the pumps to get a sandwich. There is no store (yet)
    cheap 2.11-2.46 at the pump. We are installing our own pumps for a cost of 1.80 per gallon. Up north I'm told it is .83 per gallon
    american made fuel.
    only epa crap on the truck is a egr.
    simple waist gated turbo
    safe, I flew to Indiana to get certified as an inspector for CNG vehicles. most failures are in unregulated countries.


    Cons for the Nat gas:
    hippies at the fuel pumps
    There is plenty of filling stations north of Houston but few going south.
    huge, heavy fuel tanks. Congress is working on a 2000lbs exemption for nat gas trucks
    most are un-attended fuel stations, if anything goes wrong your on your own. Training is a must.
    finesse in the low rpms is very hard. Not sure if that is the gasses fault or Cummins programming, huge boost surge.
    Spark plug changes every 30,000 miles. Easy to do, but to frequent for long haul drivers. (every 6 months for us)

    What I would change for the next truck; no ones fault but ours:
    13 speed in place of 10 running 1200-1500 rpm would be nice.
    boost and pyro gauges. The computer sees both but the driver doesn't. It would be nice to see how much load the engine is under.
    Better storage boxes for the flat bed work. lots of frame rail now the tanks are behind the cab.
    No hood mirrors. I sit low, cant see them anyway.

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  3. russtrucker

    russtrucker Road Train Member

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    Would be better diesel to be cheaper than gasoline. There's more trucks than cars.
     
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  4. VARITHMS

    VARITHMS Medium Load Member

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    Not sure what we use more of gas or diesel. I would be happy if the epa would back off. I wonder what kind of fuel mileage we would be getting if the trucks did not have all the emissions crap. I was pushing for gliders for new trucks. A aerodynamic truck with proper gearing and a 6x2 drivetrain might get 10mpg if driven right.
     
  5. Johny41

    Johny41 Road Train Member

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    well gas is used on forklifts for many years; but i had many diesel leaks on my trucks, ok we fix it and keep going, but a gas leak in daily operation is a possibility, can be really deadly; isn't this too dangerous to justify the savings ?
     
  6. bobtrucks2204

    bobtrucks2204 Light Load Member

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    Jul 23, 2014
    Mechanicsburg, PA
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    Wow, was just reading about nat gas for trucks and was looking to ask about experiences. Glad you posted this thread Varithms and thanks for all the info!

    Just asking: How many companies are using / planning on using nat gas? Any guess on percentage of total fleets?

    Aside from obvious safety (leakage, fire) concerns, are there any other major obstacles to increasing usage? Expanding fueling facilities? If we start exporting nat gas, will that drive up prices to equal diesel?

    And the big question of course is: Has anyone passed the gas lately?
     
  7. barroll

    barroll Road Train Member

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    Nov 23, 2010
    Southwest Michigan
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    Are you able to get a semi into most of the CNG stations listed in your map? I know of maybe 6 places up north with CNG a semi cash get to, and only 2 are open for business ($1.99/gal sure looks nice). CNG is the only way I'd consider buying a new truck, but I need a bit more fuel availability first.
     
  8. maggard359

    maggard359 Medium Load Member

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    I think the natural gas is the smartest solution yet to the emissions problems of today. They been using natural gas to power generators and irrigation pumps for decades now it's not a new technology. I can see longevity over diesel and versatility for the older engines and a much cheaper retrofit than the dpf filters have. I am very much against the emissions laws but I give natural gas a big thumbs up.
     
  9. 25(2)+2

    25(2)+2 Trucker Forum STAFF Staff Member

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    the road less travelled
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    It's available, as CNG in the upper Midwest, at the Kwik Trip/Star stations that carry it mostly along the main roads, and have the most availability. Those are set up for tractor trailer rigs.

    As far as safety any leak near the tanks could be catastrophic and has been. One pulling a flatbed up by Green Bay,WI had something come loose on the load. Tank pack looked more or less intact, but the passenger was blown clear out of the cab and burned badly, while the driver was killed by the explosion.

    LNG setups are at many of the Flying J locations, and aren't yet operational, although they have been in place for over a year.

    I asked unofficially at a FJ fuel desk and was told they were looking at around the beginning of next year to start operations.

    I have noticed some drivers running trucks using it, but not all trucks for any operation are on it yet. I got blocked at a drop by a concrete truck, and that guy happened to still have a diesel. He was more interested in what I was hauling than talking about the CNG Kenworths I have seen from that company tooling around Chicagoland.

    The gas used for years has been propane/butane which is also called LP gas or bottle gas, and that is still being used for many applications. Some public/municipal operations are going to propane even now. It does have some advantages.
     
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  10. VARITHMS

    VARITHMS Medium Load Member

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    We covered this very accident in the class I took. The driver loaded a forklift into a van with out securing it down. The driver hit the brakes and the forklift forks penetrated the tanks and the cab. The tanks where pressed against the cab and when the tanks vented into the cab it blew the passenger out and they where not sure if the pressure killed the driver or a run away forklift. there was no fire. http://www.ngtnews.com/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.9624#.VAyIODxdWSo

    Flying J jumped into lng. Huge mistake. Very few companies are going with lng for now. Cummins was working on a 15l direct injection motor for lng and has stopped plans for now. The marked moved to CNG for now.

    Another death was from a guy that tried to convert a propane bottle to cng. LP runs up to 800 psi cng is up to 4000, and the cng tanks are rated for 8000-8600. The propane bottle split in half where they are welded together. Hank Hill would not approve.

    The picture I posted the head rack behind the tanks is no visible. I wasn't driving a flat bed unless they put one on.
     
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  11. VARITHMS

    VARITHMS Medium Load Member

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    The epa has "out of usable service life" Trucks four years old with more than 452k miles can be retofitted with dual fuel, all the dpf, src, and egr can be removed from the truck with approved systems. They advertise pay off in a year or two. I would love this if I had my own truck. No range anxiety and no unplanned down time in a shop. I'm told 100hp gain if you so choose.

    http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/fuels/altfuels/altfuels.htm
     
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