SCR DEF Freezing Question

Discussion in 'Trucks [ Eighteen Wheelers ]' started by Star4900, Mar 27, 2015.

  1. Star4900

    Star4900 Medium Load Member

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    Been having a bad winter this year with my 2013 Western Star 4900SB/DD15 Detroit. We have had a few weeks of minus 30*C and sometimes even colder and I've had quite a few instances of the truck going into derate as soon as I leave the yard which requires a trip to the dealer to have the code turned off. It is because the DEF system has not thawed out. All the factory heating components are working, no other faults.
    So I even tried starting the truck and letting it run for a couple hours before I leave and it has still froze up on me. (which all the excessive idling can't be doing the DPF any good.)

    So I have a question if anyone has any idea? Is the coolant flow an open loop through these DEF tanks or is there something that shuts off the flow? I'm wondering if I put a Webasto (or Espar) on this thing like I had on the old truck, if it will circulate the warm coolant through the DEF system when it is parked at night?
    I was told the ECM shuts off coolant flow when it thinks it is warm enough, but not sure what state it is in when parked cold.

    Any other ideas? It has also happened with our 2012 Coronado 122SD/ISX, but not as frequently as the Star.

    Thanks for any ideas.
     
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  3. mhyn

    mhyn Road Train Member

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    View attachment 36.4  Description and Operation of the EPA10 Diesel Exhaust Fluid Heating.pdf View attachment 36.5  Description and Operation of the GHG14 Diesel Exhaust Fluid Heating.pdf View attachment 36.6  Description and Operation of the Diesel Exhaust Fluid Flow.pdf View attachment 36.7  Description and Operation of the Diesel Exhaust Fluid (Compressed Air Flow).pdf


    ....solenoid valve, activated by the ACM2, is located in the coolant
    supply line between the engine and the pump. The ACM2 controls the solenoid valve that regulates
    coolant flow to thaw and maintain DEF temperature above the DEF freezing point of -11°C (12°F).
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2015
    Champagne mane and Star4900 Thank this.
  4. magoo68

    magoo68 Road Train Member

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    A buddy had a clamp missing on his def line so there was a valley which didn't drain properly when he shut down truck which caused def to freeze in lines .. Another thing he was told was to make sure air tanks were full before shutdown . I guess it uses air pressure to blow fluid back to tanks to prevent freezing in lines... I was under the impression that it was programmed to not derate for a full hour to allow things to thaw out..PS a fully closed winter front has been known to cause def freeze ups on some models there is a sensor up front that controls coolant to def tank that thinks it is warm and coolant doesn't flow so tank remains frozen then it derates .. Just a few ideas good luck
     
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  5. uncleal13

    uncleal13 Road Train Member

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    Last edited: Mar 27, 2015
    Star4900 Thanks this.
  6. Star4900

    Star4900 Medium Load Member

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    Thanks a lot everyone!! Very helpful information. I appreciate it.
     
  7. blacklabel

    blacklabel Heavy Load Member

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    Ever get this figured out?
     
  8. Star4900

    Star4900 Medium Load Member

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    Talked to my dealer about trying to heat the system using a Webasto, but I never got anywhere trying to figure out plumbing.
    But I did learn I was doing two things wrong. I was running a winter front which they say can cause problems.
    Even Cummins has recently stated not to run a winter front. Only problem is without it my air freezes daily despite draining all my tanks a couple times a day.

    Other thing I was doing wrong was draining my air tanks before shutdown so that I had more air to blow the condensation out. Then I would shut down and drain the tanks. Therefore it didn't have enough air to blow the def fluid back.

    So we'll see what happens this winter.
     
    blacklabel Thanks this.
  9. magoo68

    magoo68 Road Train Member

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    If your air is freezing your air dryer isn't working properly
     
  10. allan5oh

    allan5oh Road Train Member

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    I'm not sure how all the systems work but I thought some of them had a pump to pump the DEF back into the tank while parked. Then you fire it up and wait until the DEF thaws out, and off you are.
     
  11. Star4900

    Star4900 Medium Load Member

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    New air dryer and power at the heat element? It freezes right after the compressor all the time under the cab.
    You can't even get at the compressor, it's on the back of the engine.
     
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