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  1. #1
    Bobtail Member
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    Beware before buying a 2004 International 4400 DT466

    This is an actual complaint letter filed with International Corporation. These trucks have been recalled for tires, wiring issues, premature codes, etc. Check it out for yourself at http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/pr...ls/results.cfm. The public has a right to know that if you buy this vehicle there is a chance that it will leave you stranded as well as possibly killed on our highways. There have been recalls because of the actual cab coming off of the chasis. Can you believe this? This vehicle will leave you possibly stranded and you will be left holding a hefty bill. This premature O-ring mishap was admitted by the shop foreman and this is why International Corp. agreed to pay for parts, but we still were out of pocket thousands of dollars. Anyone that knows "diesel engines" knows that an overhaul should not have happened on a vehicle that has never shown codes nor overheated at the low mileage of 219,987.

    Looking for potential owner/operators that want to get together for a class action law suit. Please contact me via the email above. Recalling a vehicle to correct a mileage issue because of faulty software should not cost the owner/operator. After upgrading my software my mileage changed significantly. I did not buy a vehicle that had 11 miles as one of their reps stated today, but I possibly bought a vehicle with approximatedly a 1000 miles. Noone knows. This guessing on their part cost me because we all know that commercial vehicles prices are based on several factors, one being amount of miles on the engine. So I overpaid! Noone can answer why this engine showed 11 miles and 2000 plus hours of operation. They say it was a new engine. I say, who knows?

    Catepillar recalled their 3406 engines because of O-ring failures and paid their customer's bills when this occurred. They also use three rings. Hummmmmm. I have always had luck with Cat's and Cummins, but took a chance on International because of my research and their advertisements. My opinion, stick with a product that stands behind their name.

    Dear Customer Service Engineer:

    On February 28, 2006, I had my 2004 International 4400 (Vin # 1HTMKAAN24H592264) towed to Westrux International, located in Santa Fe Springs, CA, to be repaired. The vehicle had water coming out of the blow by tube (crankcase ventilation). This was noticed after driving the vehicle a mile down the road after stopping for a coffee. I immediately stopped the engine and called a tow truck. After a diagnosis to what was wrong with my truck, I was told that I would get help from International Corporation because of a premature O-ring failure on cylinder number 4. My truck has never overheated nor has ever been under maximum load capacity. In fact, my truck is registered for 26,000 pounds even though the manufacturer says that it can handle up to 33,000 pounds. I have a very clean truck, and I have taken extreme care of this vehicle. Westrux deemed it necessary to overhaul my engine despite my engine only has 219, 987 on it. This was because when the O-ring failed it emptied my radiator’s antifreeze fluid into the crankcase. This O-ring failure was not due to misuse of equipment because of overheating, cryogenics, chemical degradation, cavitations, etc. The head mechanic, Hector, assured me that he was convinced that this was a manufacturer defect. I feel very strongly that I should not have been out of any money seeing that I bought this truck brand new, and I had no control over manufacturing this engine. I understand that Quality Control has done numerous tests on different types of O-rings under different conditions because of the 2004 Federal Emissions Requirements and the need to be in compliance with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. I also know that International understands that it needs to act not only socially responsible for the products that it creates, but also ethically and timely when a complaint is made. I made this purchase at Alumibunk in Woodhaven, MI in February of 2004. The truck when purchased displayed only 11 miles, but had over 2000 hours of operation registered on the display. When questioned on whether this engine was used for government testing or International testing we were told that this was a brand new engine and it had never been tested just ran on a Dyno.

    Unfortunately, your product has not performed well because this engine should have never failed this soon. Also, I feel that when International recalled my truck because of a software issue that the warranty should have restarted or I should have been extended an additional warranty because running the wrong software on this engine could have precipitated or caused the problem at hand. When the service department flashed my ECM with the correct software version, my mileage on my truck nearly doubled which means that when I purchased the vehicle it did not have 11 miles on it as well as the vehicle’s price was inflated because of inaccurate odometer reading. This was unethical and if I would have known, the engine had more miles on it than what was displayed I might have not purchased this vehicle. The fact that your technicians uploaded the wrong software version when I purchased this vehicle should be enough to hold International accountable. Running the wrong software for this engine could have done more damage than just an O-ring. The engine was not operating under the specs designed by the engineers. The software operates many facets of the engine’s operation, any of which could have contributed to the problem for which I am requesting retribution.

    Therefore, to resolve the problem, I would appreciate your reimbursement for all associated costs. This includes the following: tow bill, hotel stays, car rental, labor cost, and lost time. I will send copies (copies, not originals) of my records (receipts, warranties, cancelled checks, contracts, model and serial numbers, and any other documents) upon request.

    I look forward to your reply and a resolution to my problem. I will wait 48 hours before seeking third-party assistance. Please contact me at the above address or by phone. If I do not get a satisfactory resolution I will have no other recourse but to file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), my state’s attorney general, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, etc. I feel I have given International Corporation every opportunity to make this situation right, but at this point I am getting annoyed by the shuffling of responsibility. I hope that you will work with me on this matter. International advertises that the DT466 engine is reliable, durable, low downtime, and minimal maintenance. I have not had the opportunity to enjoy any of these advantages. I, as a dissatisfied customer, was mislead not only by the research that I did prior to the purchase of the vehicle, but also by the false odometer reading. Altering the odometer is covered under Article 49 U.S.C. 32710 despite the fact that commercial dealers are allowed to stamp exempt on the title because the vehicle is over 16,000 pounds. When the vehicle’s mileage is altered by the manufacturer this voids the original contract. The customer has a right to know the actual mileage at the time of purchase not a year later when there is a recall and possibly damage done to the engine because of negligence on behalf of the manufacturer.


    Sincerely,

    Mary Atwell

    Last edited by Cybergal; 05.22.2007 at 08.14 AM. Reason:: no emails in posts and no phone numbers due to security matters and our rules of the board

  2. #2
    Bobtail Member
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    International D466

    We just had two of these exxact failures in the same week. One had 2000 hours and the other 11,000 on the engine. Have you made any progress with an action against International?
    Last edited by Cybergal; 05.22.2007 at 08.15 AM. Reason:: no emails or phone numbers in posts due to security matters and our rules of the board

  3. #3
    Bobtail Member DTS Tow Operator's Avatar
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    My truck is at the International dealer getting fixed as I am posting this for the same problem at 159,550 miles on our 2003 International 4300 with a DT466 engine. This truck is owner operated and never abused. I am so disappointed in hearing about this engine o-ring failure problem. My engine ran strong. International should warranty this. I want International to pay for this in chassis engine rebuild. What can I do?

  4. #4
    Road Train Member Heavyd's Avatar
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    The base warranty does suck. I see the first post did have extended major component warranty, but no gaskets included. I have seen many times customers trucks are barely out of warranty and still get something. It usually in the form of policy. You need to be at a good dealer though. Not all dealers are the same, some fight for the customers and others don't give a shi*! International does rather well standing behind their product. One thing for sure is when you try to contact them you need to be professional! Your letter was very written with numerous good points. I am curious as to how they responded. As for the hour meter being off by 2000 hours I can only guess that was done at the dealership level. Chances are they replace the engine ECM for whatever reason. When you program a fresh new ECM you only get one chance to install the correct mileage and hours, then those numbers are "burned" in forever as the start point. I think they screwed up the programming. The truck only has two warranty claims total from Jan 05. Nothing about replacing the engine or ECM. This could have happened before delivery, the engine and ECM both show still being original too. Something is weird here.
    Ultimately in the end, here is my opinion. All trucks breakdown! ALL OF THEM!!! If there was a perfect truck out there then all the others would be out of business! Engine failures, although rare under 200,000, will happen. Get yourself a good warranty. Your engine broke just after base warranty expired. Your extended warranty didn't cover the liner o-rings and you are mad! I would be too! Try to get policy from International. If they say no, then shame on International! You either deal with it or move on in someone else's truck. Good luck with the lawsuit, but I think your are just blowing hot air and wasting your time!

  5. #5
    Road Train Member Heavyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTS Tow Operator View Post
    My truck is at the International dealer getting fixed as I am posting this for the same problem at 159,550 miles on our 2003 International 4300 with a DT466 engine. This truck is owner operated and never abused. I am so disappointed in hearing about this engine o-ring failure problem. My engine ran strong. International should warranty this. I want International to pay for this in chassis engine rebuild. What can I do?
    Same thing, ask for policy. You never know! But again, here is my opinion, please don't hate me. Your truck is 7-8 years old. It is at the end of the reliable life span. No truck will last forever! Internationals are just your run-of-the-mill, everyday, average work truck. That's it. 160K means nothing. It's the time you need to count in too. When Ryder and Penski buys these by the 1000's they get rid of them after 5 to 6 years. Why? Because, that's it, they are wopped, like it or not. These trucks are done after 8 years and you are lucky to get to 500K milies without the engine puking.

  6. #6
    Medium Load Member VARITHMS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heavyd View Post
    Same thing, ask for policy. You never know! But again, here is my opinion, please don't hate me. Your truck is 7-8 years old. It is at the end of the reliable life span. No truck will last forever! Internationals are just your run-of-the-mill, everyday, average work truck. That's it. 160K means nothing. It's the time you need to count in too. When Ryder and Penski buys these by the 1000's they get rid of them after 5 to 6 years. Why? Because, that's it, they are wopped, like it or not. These trucks are done after 8 years and you are lucky to get to 500K milies without the engine puking.
    One of the problems is they are running 2300 rps at 65mph. I know its only a 7.6l engine but they will run up to the gov. if they are not limited to 65-70mph.
    We had a rebuild at 159k miles on a 2004 rebuilt by international at 9k$ The dt466 was one of the best out there. We have a 1990 single screw with over 500k that we use for a yard mule. The a/c still works. Leaks oil like crazy but always starts.

  7. #7
    Road Train Member Heavyd's Avatar
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    That's true. You know, the 466 is one of the simplest engines there is, including the HEUI system. It really should have been bullet proof by the time it became obsolete. Too bad. But hey, at least the Maxxfarce is out now to make things better!

  8. #8
    Bobtail Member
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    Bus Idle adjust switch / eng warn light etc

    Sorry to hear bout this problem you guys are having ... I have an 06 9400i with cummins 435 six and may problem is not near as bad but was wondering if anyone knows where the idle adjustment switch is located on this truck. The abs blink code switch is in plain view and one would think idle switch would be next to it but it's nowhere to be found. My yellow eng warn light came on day after I added 2 gal of supposedly compatible with all other antifreeze I got at auto store but specified for auto / light trucks .... Unlikely this is cause but curious if heavy truck antifreeze is formulated differently?
    My manual that came with truck says I can check codes using idle adjust switch so hear I am trying to find it as I looked and couldn't find it.
    Also this yr/ model truck had a recall for a cable connecting battery to starter and Once in a while when I try to start truck it doesn't crank like batteries are dead but their not and I either need to jump cellinoid on starter or get a pull start. Stranger still when I called local international dealer he said no such cable recall happened but it did according to google search I did.
    If anyone knows something bout these things I sure would appreciate your feedback. Good luck on fixing your more serious problems.....if they try to stonewall ya or stick you with bill to fix it I have a way you can give them some real bad publicity online where every time someone does a search for that company the link you post will be top of search list.

  9. #9
    Light Load Member mslashbar's Avatar
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    I don't know about cornbinders, but on petes you use your cruise control switches. You might give that a try.

  10. #10
    Road Train Member Heavyd's Avatar
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    Yes, International you can adjust the idle speed with a Cummins buy the SET/RESUME switch. The battery cable recall your are talking about is for Internationals with Cat engines only. Diesel antifreeze does need extra chemicals to prevent internal cavitation damage. This is one the checks that are done when your truck gets serviced. With your starting issue, if you turn the key and nothing happens, try again and it cranks, this is normal. These starters have to have full and proper gear mesh between the starter drive gear and ring gear on the flywheel. Sometimes the teeth butt against each other and so the drive gear doesn't extend fully and the starter will not crank. When you let go of key the drive gear retracts and turns half a tooth so that next time you crank the engine there is proper tooth engagement.

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