Originally Posted by allan5oh

I've never understood the 10k mile oil changes. Nobody has yet to prove that there's a reason to do that. Over a million miles that's 100 oil changes. That's easily $20,000 or even $25,000. That doesn't sound like cheap insurance to me.

On the Volvo I did yearly oil changes wether it needed it or not. It had 2 main flow filters plus a factory bypass and I added a kleenoil bypass. Soot was never above .3% even with 100,000+ miles on it. TBN and viscosity were always good, as well as wear metals.

Over a million miles that would cost maybe $2,000 vs $20,000.

Miles are not a factor when engines idle, you have to have a hour meter to monitor the usage. I did all my service unless it was needed on the road, purchased oil in drums at home and saved quite a bit of money at the same time. My tractors pulled far heavier loads, O/S, O/D, O/W so it was not dragging a cracker box 80k.

I also dropped my transmission oil and rear axle oil every 75k, never had any problems with it and it is a tax write off anyways.

My proof in changing the fluids was not setting in a repair shop, engine always ran good and not one bad oil sample.

Originally Posted by Cowpie1

Except I went 1.5 mil on a '96 N-14 engine I had doing 30K mile OCI's. Filter got changed the same interval. Guess mine was even less expensive than yours by 66% without a rebuild! I feel better. Thanks!

But as a side note, what analytical study can you point to that shows changing oil at 10K and the filter at 5K actually increases engine longevity compared to OEM recommended intervals? Just saying you haven't had a problem does not prove that the oil change regimen you are doing has been the reason you have not had any problems. That is the same as me saying because I didn't use a particular oil additive and never had a problem means that anyone using that additive will destroy their engine. It is virtually impossible to prove a negative.

You hauled loads up to 160,000GVW? I did so we have no comparison to judge by. I hauled heavy loads, of road sometimes and under extreme conditions.

Originally Posted by aiwiron

Miles are not a factor when engines idle, you have to have a hour meter to monitor the usage. I did all my service unless it was needed on the road, purchased oil in drums at home and saved quite a bit of money at the same time. My tractors pulled far heavier loads, O/S, O/D, O/W so it was not dragging a cracker box 80k.

I also dropped my transmission oil and rear axle oil every 75k, never had any problems with it and it is a tax write off anyways.

My proof in changing the fluids was not setting in a repair shop, engine always ran good and not one bad oil sample.

I dearly love that "it is a tax write off anyway" comment. That is truly thought out logic. Spend a dollar to save .20 in taxes.

All kidding aside, no one is disputing that there are certain applications that require alternative drain schedules based on different criteria. But the discussion has been primarily based on what most of trucking is about... road hauling type of operation. Obiviously, if a substantial amount of engine time occurs more in hours than the traditional miles traveled, then one has to go with that. But I would argue that there are many who don't even factor that correctly and base it on some past way of doing things than on what an OEM recommended drain interval would be based on hours. They still do it too soon. And even this discussion proves that there are quite a few in trucking that have no ability to read. Or at least they don't read any operations manual put out by the manufacturer. It is nothing more that the Tim Allen philosophy..... "if it ain't broke, you can probably still fix it". Based on your logic, one might be even further ahead by changing all their engine/tranny/diff fluids on a weekly basis! After all, it is just a write off.

The tranny / diff oil change thing is really out there. Eaton and Meritor will extend the warranty on their components to 750,000 miles if one uses synthetics in those components and only requires 500,000 mile drain intervals to be in compliance with the warranty. Even being a little cautious and doing 300,000 mile drains would be far and away a lot cheaper than any 75K change.

You state your proof is by changing the fluids, you were not setting in a repair shop. There are thousands that follow OEM recommended drain intervals and have not had to sit in the shop any more than you for any oil related problem. Again, trying to prove a negative does not make for solid evidence. It is merely a "it feels good" decision and not based on anything provable by objective criteria.

Originally Posted by Cowpie1

I dearly love that "it is a tax write off anyway" comment. That is truly thought out logic. Spend a dollar to save .20 in taxes.

All kidding aside, no one is disputing that there are certain applications that require alternative drain schedules based on different criteria. But the discussion has been primarily based on what most of trucking is about... road hauling type of operation. Obiviously, if a substantial amount of engine time occurs more in hours than the traditional miles traveled, then one has to go with that. But I would argue that there are many who don't even factor that correctly and base it on some past way of doing things than on what an OEM recommended drain interval would be based on hours. They still do it too soon.

The tranny / diff oil change thing is really out there. Eaton and Meritor will extend the warranty on their components to 750,000 miles if one uses synthetics in those components and only requires 500,000 mile drain intervals to be in compliance with the warranty. Even being a little cautious and doing 300,000 mile drains would be far and away a lot cheaper than any 75K change.

You state your proof is by changing the fluids, you were not setting in a repair shop. There are thousands that follow OEM recommended drain intervals and have not had to sit in the shop any more than you for any oil related problem. Again, trying to prove a negative does not make for solid evidence.

Thousands that follow oem drain intervals do not haul like some do, comparisons that you offer are not reality for many in specialized transport.

When in comparison to my way of doing things it was just that my way and it worked for me, but I would never push it on others since what ever works for others is none of my concern.

Originally Posted by aiwiron

You hauled loads up to 160,000GVW? I did so we have no comparison to judge by. I hauled heavy loads, of road sometimes and under extreme conditions.

Then you would follow the severe schedule outlined in the owners manual. And that is still a longer interval than you stated earlier of using 10K oil changes and 5K filter changes. Still doesn't prove anything. It is just basing a decision on what feels right and comfortable for you and your operation. Nothing wrong with that, it just isn't based on anything objective that can be proven one way or the other. Are oil samples showing negative effects of going longer than the interval you have chosen? Is oil shearing excessively and the viscosity rating dropping substantially by going longer than your interval? Is the TBN being reduced to below 2 by going longer than your interval? Now that would be objective evidence.

And the weight you haul is a red hearing. There is ample evidence that ag tractors with similar engines are going far longer on hour meter oil changes in a lot harsher conditions with GVW's that make you look like you are using a pickup to pull a camper. A D9 Cat pulling double scrapers, loaded, far exceeds anything you are or have pulled. And done so in a lot harsher conditions. My family was in construction and farming, and we took bulldozers, trenchers (no not the ditch witch variety mini trenchers), backhoes, ag tractors, etc to longer drain intervals, based on hours, than many on this forum do their trucks. With no adverse effects and very good longevity before engine rebuilds.

Originally Posted by Cowpie1

Then you would follow the severe schedule outlined in the owners manual. And that is still a longer interval than you stated earlier of using 10K oil changes and 5K filter changes. Still doesn't prove anything. It is just basing a decision on what feels right and comfortable for you and your operation. Nothing wrong with that, it just isn't based on anything objective that can be proven one way or the other. Are oil samples showing negative effects of going longer than the interval you have chosen? Is oil shearing excessively and the viscosity rating dropping substantially by going longer than your interval? Is the TBN being reduced to below 2 by going longer than your interval? Now that would be objective evidence.

And the weight you haul is a red hearing. There is ample evidence that ag tractors with similar engines are going far longer on hour meter oil changes in a lot harsher conditions with GVW's that make you look like you are using a pickup to pull a camper. A D9 Cat pulling double scrapers, loaded, far exceeds anything you are or have pulled. And done so in a lot harsher conditions. My family was in construction and farming, and we took bulldozers, trenchers (no not the ditch witch variety mini trenchers), backhoes, ag tractors, etc to longer drain intervals, based on hours, than many on this forum do their trucks. With no adverse effects and very good longevity before engine rebuilds.

Make you a deal,

You do things your way and I will do it my way, if I need your help I will let you know.

Originally Posted by aiwiron

Make you a deal,

You do things your way and I will do it my way, if I need your help I will let you know.

I have no problem with that. I stated that earlier on in this thread. I could care less what others do. It is the trying to prove a negative by what you do that is the issue. Anecdotal situations are not hard fact. If one wants to live in the stone age, that's ok.

I wasn't trying to give you any help. It is obvious you wouldn't want it anyway. I was contesting your assertions. Some may read your comments and assume they are solid evidence. I didn't. I am open to any documented proof that shorter drain intervals than the OEM recommend intervals actually increase engine longevity. So far, no one has stepped up to the plate on that. Including the oil companies that have a vested interest in selling more engine oil.