I know they did more, but painting a yellow engine black was not going to cure the egr issues that brought cat to the brink! Sure if the 08 cats had def and the dpf and the extra years theh would have been as great as the 07s!!! But it was not ready for prime time!

These new emission junk is killing the trucking industry. Maybe the EPA wants all the little guys to fail so its just the big companies running it all.

The problem with solid is the amount to be carried and that it can't be easily replenished wasn't thought out. You can divide the weight of the DEF used in an A service interval by about 3 and that is how big that block of urea would have to be, plus, there is no easy way to regulate it. DEF has been used for a long time in stationary applications according to Cummins itself in their presentation on how DEF works. The technology was proven a long time ago.

As for the pre egr engines not needing a DPF, those have to be added everywhere mandated (California and New Jersey for now) to make an older engine marginally compliant.

I haven't had that much trouble with the 2007 emissions Series 60 I drive now, I still don't want a new(er) truck without an APU and a smaller sleeper, which is what I would get driving here. The lease/rental people we deal with won't even maintain an existing APU let alone purchase new ones.

As for the red engines, I see lots of trucks equipped with these driving down the road puffing out clouds of exhaust that smells of unburned fuel, and with underslung exhausts, appearing to be on fire. I don't see that much with FLs, although, I am seeing more and more ISX equipped Cascadias.

I wouldn't want to drive one, I haven't liked the ones I have driven that much, with or without EGR.

Navistar is at the bottom of the list for customer satisfaction, well below anyone else, despite having well thought of dealers , and lots of them, in place.

Originally Posted by Cowpie1

If that is the way Navistar eventually goes, then it would fit into their "the driver doesn't have to do anything" methodology that they touted by using AEGR instead of SCR.

This goes great with the increasing popularity of auto transmissions and everything else to make the driver have to do as little as possible. Maybe eventually they'll come up with a way to phase the driver out.

Originally Posted by SmokinCAT

It's funny that the engine that was mentioned was the 13 which cat has nothing to do with, not the 15. Also cat has an industrial engine that comes within a minuscule amount of meeting the truck emmissions, with some tweaking it could be made to meet truck emmissions. Don't throw caterpillar under the bus because navistar screwed the pooch.

Cat belongs under the bus. After their 07 screw Job. They put out that pos and then bailed . Can't blame
Navistar for that one can they!

I asked how this might effect the cat 660 truck, a Navistar clone. And now 5 years later cat has another emissions pos on there hands. They obviously have not learned a #### thing!